# capital punishment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2006, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651 "2006-02-02T07:41:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/1 "2006-02-02T07:41:40Z")
I was reading a report saying that lethal injecion may be an inhumane form of capatal punishment because the subject may be in excrutiating pain and paralyzed at the same time. We, as a society don’t know with a degree of certainty if that is true. So if pain is an issue, I say what we do is take a group of prisoners who are to be executed on an airplain, fly them to 38,000 feet over the ocean (or some remote area), and throw them off. I can’t see how they would feel any pain what so ever. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/2 "2006-02-02T07:46:58Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > What do you think? I think this thread will be closed or moved to another forum before your prisoner hits the ground, that’s what I think. ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/3 "2006-02-02T08:42:04Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I think this thread will be closed or moved to another forum before your prisoner hits the ground, that’s what I think. Okay, let me rephrase, would this method be pain free and if so, why don’t we do this? ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/4 "2006-02-02T09:04:47Z")
From what I’ve seen and read I think using a hyperbaric chamber to take the condemed person to an artificial high altitude would be completly painless. At some point the person simply passes out from lack of oxygen to the brain and death occurs soon after. I’d be interested in hear from anyone who has had experiences in a chamber. ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/5 "2006-02-02T09:23:11Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > From what I’ve seen and read I think using a hyperbaric chamber to take the condemed person to an artificial high altitude would be completly painless. At some point the person simply passes out from lack of oxygen to the brain and death occurs soon after. > I’d be interested in hear from anyone who has had experiences in a chamber. Well, if there’s lack of oxygen involved than the person suffocates, and that certainly is not free of pain. Does lack of oxygen actally happen? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/6 "2006-02-02T09:25:07Z")
With a few minute fall, “fear” might be an ethical issue with the aircraft method—not to mention windburn, cold, etc. Though the death itself would probably be instantaneous, and therefore painless. And, granted, the oxygen deprivation might have you unconscious long before then. A large caliber bullet or a shotgun blast\* to the back of the skull, on the other hand, while not very pleasant to watch (or clean up after), would be faster, and just as painless. Plus, you could harvest the organs for transplant, saving lives. That, or any other method that involves physically destroying the brain would do just as well, if it was quick enough. (Like dropping a five ton lead block on the prisoner’s skull, or having an elephant step on his or her head. The latter was actually used, historically.) \*Actually, I believe the Chinese use a special hollow-point 7.62mm rifle round—which, if the photos I once saw are genuine, does as good a job as a shotgun at point-blank range. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/7 "2006-02-02T11:27:58Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > Well, if there’s lack of oxygen involved than the person suffocates, and that certainly is not free of pain. Does lack of oxygen actally happen? I would prefer if someone knowledgable about these chambers would comment, but, as I understand it, the reduced oxygen content of the blood causes unconciousness and death. It’s not as if you’re lungs are stressed, or as if you’re gasping for air. I imagine that the timing is important. I’ve seen documentaries on the use of hyperbaric chambers, although I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone advocating that they be used as a means of execution. When people reach the point where oxygen deprivation begins to have noticable effects they don’t appear to be in any discomfort, there may even be some giddiness and perhaps some euphoria. Loss of conciousness appears to come very rapidly and if oxygen deprivation continues, death soon follows. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/8 "2006-02-02T15:14:32Z")
IANA real D How could the prisoner be in “excrutiating pain” when the first drug through the IV lines (saline solution is run first) is an anesthetic (usually Sodium Thiopental)? According to Amnesty International, and quoted in the procedures listed at [How Stuff Works](http://people.howstuffworks.com/lethal-injection4.htm), this anesthetic takes effect in aboout 30 seconds. The whole procedure is: 1. Insert IV (there could be some pain involved here, but “excutiating” is probably a stretch) 2. Run saline solution (may feel cold, but not painful) 3. Run lethal dose of Sodium thiopental (30 seconds later they could perform surgery - he ain’t feeling nothing) 4. Run more saline 5. Run lethal dose of muscle relaxer (usually Pancuronium bromide, causing the “paralysis” you decribe and stopping the breathing process) 6. Run more saline 7. Some states then run a lethal dose of Potassium chloride (to stop the heart) I can see there being some discomfort or pain from the administration of the IV itself, continuing while the initial saline drip is running and a few seconds after the anesthetic is run. Nothing worse than a standard hospital IV. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/9 "2006-02-02T16:59:26Z")
Don’t hyperbaric chambers _increase_ air pressure? What you want is the hypothetical hy **po** baric chamber. The guillotine is extremely quick, albeit messy. How about administering an overdose of heroin so the condemned spends his final moments in orgasmic pleasure? ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/10 "2006-02-02T17:05:12Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > So if pain is an issue, I say what we do is take a group of prisoners who are to be executed on an airplane, fly them to 38,000 feet over the ocean (or some remote area), and throw them off. I can’t see how they would feel any pain what so ever. What do you think? I think they would immediately stop this practice the first time one of them went “Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!” ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/11 "2006-02-02T18:39:03Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > With a few minute fall, “fear” might be an ethical issue with the aircraft method—not to mention windburn, cold, etc. Though the death itself would probably be instantaneous, and therefore painless. And, granted, the oxygen deprivation might have you unconscious long before then. how about a plane flying 250ft high then … over open water … the fall would just be 2-3 secs and the death instant? alfred ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/12 "2006-02-02T18:56:28Z")
If I where to be killed in the method of my choosing I would choose 3-4 guys with shotguns two aimed at my head two aimed at my chest. Fire, repeat. I do not think I would feel much. Of course having never experienced this I could be way wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/13 "2006-02-02T19:05:21Z")
There is no height from which a fall is guaranteed to kill a human. What happens if you drop your convict out of the airplane, he hits the surface, and just breaks both his legs and most of his ribs? > [@](#): > > Plus, you could harvest the organs for transplant, saving lives. Have you ever seen the questionaires they give you, just to donate blood? They don’t want anyone who’s ever taken intravenous drugs, or who’s ever been a prostitute, or had sex with a prostitute or with someone who’s taken intravenous drugs, or any man who’s ever had sex with another man. I would suspect that most folks on Death Row fall into one or more of those risk groups, and even if they didn’t, are you going to take the convict’s word on that? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/14 "2006-02-02T19:25:04Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Plus, you could harvest the organs for transplant, saving lives. I do not think society should ever view those it puts to death for a crime as a potential valuable commodity. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/15 "2006-02-02T19:29:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Have you ever seen the questionaires they give you, just to donate blood? They don’t want anyone who’s ever taken intravenous drugs, or who’s ever been a prostitute, or had sex with a prostitute or with someone who’s taken intravenous drugs, or any man who’s ever had sex with another man. I would suspect that most folks on Death Row fall into one or more of those risk groups, and even if they didn’t, are you going to take the convict’s word on that? I do not know for certain but somehow I doubt organ donors are given such thorough scrutiny. In many states in the US merely signing the back of your driver’s license makes you an organ donor. I doubt someone mere days from death are overly fussy about what heart they get. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/16 "2006-02-02T19:57:51Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Don’t hyperbaric chambers _increase_ air pressure? What you want is the hypothetical hy **po** baric chamber. > > The guillotine is extremely quick, albeit messy. How about administering an overdose of heroin so the condemned spends his final moments in orgasmic pleasure? You are correct. They are called HYPOBARIC chambers. Here’s an article about the chamber. In the latter part a Blackbird (SR-71) pilot describes accidentally going to 24,000 ft. w/o adequate oxygen. [http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/Alt\_Chamber.htm](http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/Alt_Chamber.htm) ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/17 "2006-02-02T20:00:29Z")
> [@A.R. Cane](#): > > I would prefer if someone knowledgable about these chambers would comment, but, as I understand it, the reduced oxygen content of the blood causes unconciousness and death. It’s not as if you’re lungs are stressed, or as if you’re gasping for air… Correct. One of the main things that make us feel suffocated is the buildup of carbon dioxide. If you are exhaling normally, you are exhaling the CO2. This is one reason why some workers years ago walked into a large tank filled with nitrogen gas and were killed. I can’t find the report, but I seem to recall reading that they did not get out because they were unaware that they were breathing an atmosphere that had no oxygen in it. > [@IA.R. Cane](#): > > imagine that the timing is important. I’ve seen documentaries on the use of hyperbaric chambers, although I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone advocating that they be used as a means of execution. When people reach the point where oxygen deprivation begins to have noticable effects they don’t appear to be in any discomfort, there may even be some giddiness and perhaps some euphoria. Loss of conciousness appears to come very rapidly and if oxygen deprivation continues, death soon follows. They’re usually called altitude chambers or high altitude chambers and are used by the military tot rain pilots on how insidious the lack of oxygen at high altitudes is. [As mentioned here,](http://www.copanational.org/non-members/safety/2001/safetyCCJune01.htm) there are few symptoms noticed by the people in them, even though they quickly become unable to perform simple tasks. > [@](#): > > …Military organizations around the world use high altitude chambers to train pilots how to cope with a sudden loss of pressurization. The chamber operators demonstrate to pilots the effects of hypoxia by asking them to remove their oxygen masks and attempt simple mental arithmetic problems or to try to write something. They prove over and over again that even simple tasks become impossible when the pilots become hypoxic, which occurs within a few minutes of oxygen mask removal… > [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Don’t hyperbaric chambers increase air pressure? What you want is the hypothetical hypobaric chamber. Correct. They are theraputic devices used in medicine and diving. [Here’s one quick summary on them](http://www.oxytank.com/how.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/18 "2006-02-02T20:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you ever seen the questionaires they give you, just to donate blood? They don’t want anyone who’s ever taken intravenous drugs, or who’s ever been a prostitute, or had sex with a prostitute or with someone who’s taken intravenous drugs, or any man who’s ever had sex with another man. I would suspect that most folks on Death Row fall into one or more of those risk groups, and even if they didn’t, are you going to take the convict’s word on that? One of the questions now is “have you been in prison in the last year?” Hard to imagine very many death row inmates are going to pass that screening process. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/19 "2006-02-02T20:10:30Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > One of the questions now is “have you been in prison in the last year?” Hard to imagine very many death row inmates are going to pass that screening process. That’s for _blood_ donation. There is not a similar questionaire for most _organ_ donations, primarily for the obvious reason that at time of donation, the donee is generally not in a condition to respond. Y’know, being dead and all. ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651/20 "2006-02-02T20:12:19Z")
\ Hmmm… IMHO or GD? GD or IMHO? Discussion has been civil, even light at times, so IMHO it is. Dropped from an airplane to land in the IMHO forum. SPLAT! \ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capital-punishment/342651.md?page=2)