# Caprica: 1.08 "Ghosts in the Machine" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 20, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087 "2010-03-20T00:47:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/1 "2010-03-20T00:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=SyFy] Daniel plays a dangerous game trying to draw out Zoe/U-87 [/QUOTE] By my reckoning this is the second to last episode before **Caprica** goes on hiatus until late summer/early fall. Next week should be the traditional “mid-season finale”. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/2 "2010-03-20T00:55:34Z")
I hate the mid-season hiatus thing. Wish they’d run complete seasons without interruption. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/3 "2010-03-20T01:45:49Z")
Loving it a lot. Great one. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/4 "2010-03-20T02:18:07Z")
I voted “Didn’t like it” this week. Did like the New Cap city stuff. Hated the incestuous sadism thing between Daniel & Zoe. Hated the Old Yeller bit. The show can stop waving the \*\*HEY WE’RE DARK AND EDGY. REALLY. WE ARE. \*\* banner any old time now. We get it. Ron Moore is a sick fuck. Enough rubbing our noses in it, already. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/5 "2010-03-20T02:19:31Z")
I also voted loved it. How far will Daniel go? Can Zoe/U-87 actually feel “pain”? I have to wonder how does she perceive stuff like tearing her arm off? She didn’t hesitate to do it and didn’t appear to be in any distress afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/6 "2010-03-20T03:08:18Z")
I’m not really into the whole New Cap City noir stuff. I liked the torture to robot stuff. It makes the whole cylon attitude make more sense. The whole annihilation of the human race is because of the moodiness of a teenaged girl with daddy issues. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/7 "2010-03-20T16:41:11Z")
So what was the riddle presented to Joseph Adama by the weird dude? Something about sins of the father being taken out on the children? Like Bill’s speech in BSG? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/8 "2010-03-20T23:07:19Z")
It was something like “As the Gods cast out the Titans, we cast out the Gods. What will our children do to us?” The week before, Amanda used the “All of this has happened before” line. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/9 "2010-03-21T01:23:19Z")
I’ve had all the episodes recorded on my DVR, but hadn’t found time to watch them until this week (spring break). The pilot’s first hour had me a little bummed; it moved a little slow. Then, once the maglev got bomb, it really grabbed me. Watching 9 hours within a week was a little overwhelming (started to dream Caprica one night), but I’m glad I caught up. The whole psyche-Zoe/U87-out was well done, IMO. How far was Daniel going to go? Pretty frakking far, as it turns out. It’s a good thing there was the she-knows-that-he-knows-the-gun-had-blanks, or I’d think that Zoe was more ruthless. I love the cutting between U87 and Zoe as the scenes with her go. Keeps us guessing: is she more human, avatar, or machine. The next episode’s called “End of the Line”. But whose? Tamara? Zoe? Joseph? Daniel? Amanda? The credits on IMDB don’t tell. My guess: Keon, the little shit that built the suicide bomb that Ben used. I think that _somehow_ Zoe or Lacy will figure out that the real Zoe had no idea about the bomb, and that Ben and Keon were radical members of STO. P.S. Anyone else catch the “fucking” in the v-world scene where Zoe figures out that Daniel is trying to get her to react? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/10 "2010-03-21T01:55:51Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > P.S. Anyone else catch the “fucking” in the v-world scene where Zoe figures out that Daniel is trying to get her to react? What do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/11 "2010-03-21T05:22:22Z")
Does anyone spot an inconsistent conception of the interactions between Daniel and Zoe/U-87? In this episode, Daniel _suspects_ Zoe’s in the robot, but physically he only sees the robot (based on us seeing the robot when the camera is placed behind Daniel’s shoulder and towards the robot). And only in the sideways shots, do we see Zoe in place of the cylon. From the shots in Daniel’s perspective, we can see that he’s looking _up_ at the robot, and in the sideways shot, he’s looking at where Zoe would be, but he doesn’t actually see her. Fine, let’s grant this as some sort of dramatic license. But there’s this one sideways shot where Daniel’s asking Zoe to look at her. But all Daniel actually sees is the robot, who hasn’t tilted its head or that gliding red thingy. So what was all that about? Hallucination? My guess is the writers just don’t give a crap about coherence as long as they can generate conflict and tension to keep the eyeballs glued. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/12 "2010-03-21T05:59:41Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > …My guess is the writers just don’t give a crap about coherence as long as they can generate conflict and tension to keep the eyeballs glued. That would be my guess too. It would cool (& very strange) if they used CGI to “enlarge” the actress so that the humanform was the same size as the robot. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/13 "2010-03-21T06:31:15Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That would be my guess too. It would cool (& very strange) if they used CGI to “enlarge” the actress so that the humanform was the same size as the robot. 😉 I wish they would at least put her on a platform or something. She looks out of that eye, so she wouldn’t feel like everyone is taller than her. On the contrary, being 8 feet tall would be one of the notable things she would be experiencing. And it really bugs me when she’s looking one way and the robot is looking another. In one scene (I think right after she shoots the dog) it shows her looking back over her shoulder when the robot is standing stock still and looking straight ahead. What the frak? ---
**Author:** ![cstamets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@cstamets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cstamets)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/14 "2010-03-21T14:03:21Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > Does anyone spot an inconsistent conception of the interactions between Daniel and Zoe/U-87? In this episode, Daniel _suspects_ Zoe’s in the robot, but physically he only sees the robot (based on us seeing the robot when the camera is placed behind Daniel’s shoulder and towards the robot). And only in the sideways shots, do we see Zoe in place of the cylon. From the shots in Daniel’s perspective, we can see that he’s looking _up_ at the robot, and in the sideways shot, he’s looking at where Zoe would be, but he doesn’t actually see her. Fine, let’s grant this as some sort of dramatic license. But there’s this one sideways shot where Daniel’s asking Zoe to look at her. But all Daniel actually sees is the robot, who hasn’t tilted its head or that gliding red thingy. So what was all that about? Hallucination? > > My guess is the writers just don’t give a crap about coherence as long as they can generate conflict and tension to keep the eyeballs glued. The gliding red thingy stopped when Daniel told the robot to look at him. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/15 "2010-03-21T16:05:26Z")
> [@cstamets](#): > > The gliding red thingy stopped when Daniel told the robot to look at him. Ah, you’re right. The scene had Daniel looking at an aversive Zoe when he asked her, which doesn’t make sense. And the red thingy was moving as if it was scanning its entire visual field, not averting its gaze. Still incoherent, but somewhat less so. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/16 "2010-03-21T18:08:10Z")
Maybe Daddy just know his daughter well enough to know that she would avert her eyes when he yelled at her. Of course, that’s even more confusing. How much can she “move,” flinch, squirm, talk to the dog, and turn her head and eyes in her mind (which I assume is what the avatar represents) without moving her physical robot body? Could she have run screaming from the fire while the robot stood there? I suppose not, but the relationship between avatar Zoe and the robot body is very unclear, as is what we are supposed to be seeing when we see avatar Zoe in the robot’s place. I suspect that the avatar is just to help us see her emotions, and that there isn’t meant to be any real connection between what the avatar does and what the robot does, but it’s just distracting and confusing to me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/17 "2010-03-21T18:28:10Z")
Daniel is a sick bastard. There are a lot of _loving_ ways he could have coaxed Zoe 2.0 into revealing herself, instead of fireboarding her. If he did love her as a Daddy should, that is. We saw the beginning of the Cylons’ contempt for humanity there, just as we saw humanity’s contempt in Daniel’s speech to the board about creating slave labor. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/18 "2010-03-21T19:24:23Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > Does anyone spot an inconsistent conception of the interactions between Daniel and Zoe/U-87? In this episode, Daniel _suspects_ Zoe’s in the robot, but physically he only sees the robot (based on us seeing the robot when the camera is placed behind Daniel’s shoulder and towards the robot). And only in the sideways shots, do we see Zoe in place of the cylon. From the shots in Daniel’s perspective, we can see that he’s looking _up_ at the robot, and in the sideways shot, he’s looking at where Zoe would be, but he doesn’t actually see her. Fine, let’s grant this as some sort of dramatic license. Similar to “Quantum Leap”, when Sam is greatly taller than whoever he leapt into. Just gonna let it slide as dramatic license. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/19 "2010-03-21T19:49:21Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > What do you mean? After the scene where Daniel is having Zoe/U-87 breaking down the gun and re-assembling it as he’s talking about the fire that destroyed their home when she was five. He see her react a little, right after he accidentally burns himself with a match. It then segues to the v-world, where Zoe/Avatar is talking with Lacy: > [@](#): > > _ **Zoe:** _ He had me doing all this soldier stuff; basic military crap that the robot already knew. And he started barking orders at me like some crazy drill sergeant in one of those Tauron war movies. > _ **Lacy:** _ Doesn’t sound like much of a test. > _ **Zoe:** _ I know. But he just kept it up, making me do things over and over again. Heh. Y’know, it just pissed me off so much that I wanted to reach out and snap him! _[pause]_ > _ **Lacy:** _ What? > _ **Zoe:** _ God… I’m such a **fucking** idiot. Don’t you see? That’s exactly what he wanted me to do. > _ **Lacy:** _ He wants you to break his neck? > _ **Zoe:** _ Nonono, to react! Now, admittedly, I watched this via computer rather than the DVR recording (which I’ve now deleted). But everyone else substitutes the word “frak” for “fuck” all throughout the show, even on webcasts. A similar thing happened on BSG, when Baltar is having a flashback to when Six and his father first me, and his father was being a rude ass. Baltar snapped at him using the real f-word. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087/20 "2010-03-21T20:39:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Daniel is a sick bastard. There are a lot of _loving_ ways he could have coaxed Zoe 2.0 into revealing herself, instead of fireboarding her. If he did love her as a Daddy should, that is. We saw the beginning of the Cylons’ contempt for humanity there, just as we saw humanity’s contempt in Daniel’s speech to the board about creating slave labor. That was the part of the story that I really enjoyed. The whole noir thing in New Cap City is a distraction. I don’t care about any of those people or what is going on in a video game. Regarding the conversation about the avatar vs the robot, I am happy to go on record as saying I approve of anything that puts [Alessandra Torresani](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0003779/) on my screen as often as possible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caprica-1-08-ghosts-in-the-machine-open-spoilers/533087.md?page=2)