# Captain America 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 24, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131 "2013-10-24T17:20:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/21 "2013-10-24T22:33:45Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > The Hellcarrier goes down _again?_ That thing’s about as durable as a Yugo. It’s the same rule as “see a gun in act one…” If you see a flying city, that sucker is coming down, or at least going to be threatened with doing so. Ditto with floating cities and underwater cities. Cities under big glass bubbles holding in the atmosphere. To quote Jeff Goldblum “Sure, everyone’s always ‘Ooh! Aah!’ Then there’s all the running and screaming.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/22 "2013-10-24T23:29:48Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I had no idea Redford was in this/doing superhero stuff. Interesting. Redford’s playing a member of the World Security Council - the group that controls Shield and was going to nuke NYC. So he’s not an open villain. He represents the people who are willing to do immoral things for what they feel is a moral cause. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/23 "2013-10-24T23:40:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Redford’s playing a member of the World Security Council - the group that controls Shield and was going to nuke NYC. So he’s not an open villain. He represents the people who are willing to do immoral things for what they feel is a moral cause. As tightly plotted as the Marvel Movieverse is, just who controls SHIELD has always been a bit up in the air. Pre-Avengers, it was strongly implied to be a super-secret agency within the US (which it was in the early comics) before becoming a worldwide organization in The Avengers. But in Agents of SHIELD, they’re clearly working for the US government (Coulson even mentions working with other governments in an early episode). Now there’s this Robert Redford character. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/24 "2013-10-24T23:58:31Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But in Agents of SHIELD, they’re clearly working for the US government (Coulson even mentions working with other governments in an early episode). How do you figure? I haven’t gotten that impression at all from the show. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/25 "2013-10-25T00:05:35Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > The Hellcarrier goes down _again?_ That thing’s about as durable as a Yugo. Freeze at 1:19. There are two of them in view, with a third carrier bay behind them. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/26 "2013-10-25T00:06:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How do you figure? I haven’t gotten that impression at all from the show. In the episode where they go to Peru, Coulson told one of the Peruvians that it was a US mission. Something like, “The US government thanks you for your help” or something. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/27 "2013-10-25T00:15:43Z")
Huh, I didn’t know there was any filming in some of those spots-- I never saw a crew on Euclid Ave., or in front of the [del]BP[/del] Huntington Building. And I’m glad to see they got a lot of use out of the Shoreway-- With as inconvenient as it was to shut it down for a month, they’d darned well better. > [@](#): > > Quoth **Intergalactic Gladiator** : > > I like that idea too. I read it described as a political thriller and I think the idea of the 40s-era square optimism of Cap versus the modern age sneaky bastard cynicism was plenty of potential for good storytelling. I think the great purpose of the character of Captain America is that he reminds us that sometimes, the world really _is_ that simple. As Superman once said, and I’m sure Cap would agree, “In this world, there is right, and there is wrong. And it is not hard to tell the difference.”. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/28 "2013-10-25T00:58:00Z")
Is there more to the subtitle than having the character in the movie? I’m thinking of the Winter Soldier investigations of Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan and even more of Thomas Paine. Or am I just giving the movie too much credit? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/29 "2013-10-25T01:18:19Z")
Now I’m stoked! Leading up to this I was more “Meh.” I like Cap but he doesn’t Wow me. But this trailer had me bouncing in my computer chair. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/30 "2013-10-25T01:59:36Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Is there more to the subtitle than having the character in the movie? I’m thinking of the Winter Soldier investigations of Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan and even more of Thomas Paine. Or am I just giving the movie too much credit? No, you’re just overthinking. The Winter Soldier was the title of a Captain America story arc featuring the aforementioned winter Soldier, who had been a supersoldier assassin for the Soviets during the Cold War and was now being used by other forces after being loaned out by former KGB. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/31 "2013-10-25T03:14:04Z")
The thing is, they’re about to almost certainly fuck it up. It seems to me that there’s room for a really good “are these really the good guys?” story or a really good Winter Soldier story but not necessarily both. Also I thought they cast Sharon Carter but in the trailer it seems Black Widow has sort of taken her part? Which is fine, that’s a character people already know and get. The thing that I really don’t like about them using the Winter Soldier storyline is that they haven’t earned it. You need a movie dealing with the “man out of time” issue. That’s what I find fascinating about this movie (and theoretically the comic book) Captain America and I have yet to read a comic book about him that I liked in the way that it really dealt with it. Just imagine, really imagine, what his life would be like, what the pressures on him would be, what a struggle his day to day would be, how difficult it would be to enter society again - they need to spend a movie on that and have an established life before he has something from his past come back at him. ETA - my husband and I were talking about how they really need to let the Cap character breathe in his next movie while we were standing in line to see Iron Man 3 and I pointed out the giant plasma screens above the theater snack bar - “Look, man. Here’s this amazing technology and we’re using it to give you the same price list we could have written on a chalkboard centuries ago. And the popcorn is EIGHT DOLLARS.” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/32 "2013-10-25T06:20:41Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > The thing is, they’re about to almost certainly fuck it up. It seems to me that there’s room for a really good “are these really the good guys?” story or a really good Winter Soldier story but not necessarily both. > > Also I thought they cast Sharon Carter but in the trailer it seems Black Widow has sort of taken her part? Which is fine, that’s a character people already know and get. > > The thing that I really don’t like about them using the Winter Soldier storyline is that they haven’t earned it. You need a movie dealing with the “man out of time” issue. That’s what I find fascinating about this movie (and theoretically the comic book) Captain America and I have yet to read a comic book about him that I liked in the way that it really dealt with it. Just imagine, really imagine, what his life would be like, what the pressures on him would be, what a struggle his day to day would be, how difficult it would be to enter society again - they need to spend a movie on that and have an established life before he has something from his past come back at him. > > ETA - my husband and I were talking about how they really need to let the Cap character breathe in his next movie while we were standing in line to see Iron Man 3 and I pointed out the giant plasma screens above the theater snack bar - “Look, man. Here’s this amazing technology and we’re using it to give you the same price list we could have written on a chalkboard centuries ago. And the popcorn is EIGHT DOLLARS.” The problem with the “man out of time” stuff is that we’ve seen it. “Time traveler doesn’t understand the present” is old-hat. I think just from the trailer we get a sense that some of the actual emotional issues he’d have to deal with will come up. Here he think everyone he knew is dead or dying…except HIS BEST FRIEND who he thought was dead…is actually alive… and his enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/33 "2013-10-25T07:15:10Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > The problem with the “man out of time” stuff is that we’ve seen it. “Time traveler doesn’t understand the present” is old-hat. “Guy in tights punches other guy in tights” isn’t exactly fresh and innovative, either, and yet here we are. **Zsofia** , Google “Steve Rogers’ American Captain.” It’s a fan made webcomic that purports to be Steve Rogers’ comic diary. It’s an absolutely fantastic take on the character, and how he’d have trouble adapting to the modern world. Also features some fantastic discussions of modern art. Check it out before Disney’s lawyers get wind. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/34 "2013-10-25T10:04:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Redford’s playing a member of the World Security Council - the group that controls Shield and was going to nuke NYC. So he’s not an open villain. He represents the people who are willing to do immoral things for what they feel is a moral cause. I’m wondering if Redford will eventually turn out to be… The Red Skull. During the John Walker storyline, Cap’s life was being manipulated by a blond guy in Washington, who was eventually revealed to be the Red Skull in a cloned body. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/35 "2013-10-25T11:39:29Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > The thing is, they’re about to almost certainly fuck it up. I am not making that unwarranted assumption yet. Marvel has earned the benefit of the doubt IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/36 "2013-10-25T12:16:40Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > No, you’re just overthinking. The Winter Soldier was the title of a Captain America story arc featuring the aforementioned winter Soldier, who had been a supersoldier assassin for the Soviets during the Cold War and was now being used by other forces after being loaned out by former KGB. In between missions, they kept him . . . [dons sunglasses] . . . _on ice._ [/guitar music] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/37 "2013-10-25T15:30:27Z")
To be fair, they also had a bit of the “man out of time” material in _The Avengers_. I understand that most of it ended up on the cutting-room floor (because let’s face it, that movie was already jammed full as it was), but we still had scenes like “This must all seem terribly strange to you”, and the one where he actually got a pop culture reference. And did we actually see an aircraft crashing into the Pentagon in that trailer? I’m surprised a movie would do that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/38 "2013-10-25T16:04:58Z")
Into the Pentagon? I don’t remember that from the trailer. The _Potomac_, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/39 "2013-10-25T18:05:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Guy in tights punches other guy in tights” isn’t exactly fresh and innovative Yes, because clearly they’re the same thing. Is there really a desire for Austin Powers’ style jokes just with Cap as the focus? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131/40 "2013-10-25T18:22:04Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Freeze at 1:19. There are two of them in view, with a third carrier bay behind them. And look at the numbers on them I see a 42 and 88 and 65 I believe. The one that crashes is 42. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-2/672131.md?page=3)