# Captain America and Batman: "Super"heroes or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572 "2009-09-18T09:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/41 "2009-09-19T14:31:09Z")
> [@audreyayn](#): > > Also, I’ll bet there are people who lost their powers and acted as superheroes anyway, although I can’t think of any off of the top of my head. Moon Knight gained superstrength early in his costumed career, but kept on fighting crime when he lost it, and then kept fighting crime when he got it back years later, and then kept fighting crime even when he didn’t have it any longer. As for the bunch-of-guys-in-an-alley scenario, what about Doctor Mid-Nite? His lone superpower is the ability to see in the dark: he’ll kick your ass if he’s got a couple of smoke grenades, but otherwise he’s just a fairly athletic guy. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/42 "2009-09-19T16:22:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As for the bunch-of-guys-in-an-alley scenario, what about Doctor Mid-Nite? His lone superpower is the ability to see in the dark: he’ll kick your ass if he’s got a couple of smoke grenades, but otherwise he’s just a fairly athletic guy. Even if he can see without light, wouldn’t smoke block his view? And yeah, unless Mid-Nite has the mad kombat skillz, he would be more like an ordinary guy with a gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/43 "2009-09-19T17:43:18Z")
> [@audreyayn](#): > > Anyway, being a superhero is not about having super powers. Even if it were, Batman has super-plot powers he gets from the writers, that allow him to beat people he shouldn’t even be able to look at without getting killed. Yup! I mean, how hard would it be to lure Batman to an abandoned pier, monitor his arrival, and then blow up the whole freakin’ place?! The more ruthless villains would have no problem luring him to a populated area. * * * And, on the subject of whether Batman even ever **really** showed some sort of dazzling super-human detective prowess in his stories: [Keyna voice on] YO, Batman, I know your closing in on a new super-villain, and Ima let you finish, but \*Sherlock Holmes \*is one of the best detectives of all time. [/Keyna voice] > **[Kanye Will Let The Hamburglar Finish | Kanye West Will | Kanye Interrupts](http://imaletyoufinish.com/kanye-will-let-the-hamburglar-finish/)** > > Yo Dude that stole my lunch, Im real happy for you, Ima let you finish, but the Hamburglar is one of the best food thiefs of all time > **[Kanye West Will Let You Finish - I'ma Let You Finish - Kanye Interrupts](http://imaletyoufinish.com)** > > Yo Taylor, I'm really happy for you, I'ma Let you finish, but Beyonce has one of the best videos of all time! Kanye Interrupts. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/44 "2009-09-19T19:18:45Z")
> [@True Blue Jack](#): > > [Keyna voice on] > > YO, Batman, I know your closing in on a new super-villain, and Ima let you finish, but \*Sherlock Holmes \*is one of the best detectives of all time. > > [/Keyna voice] Kenya? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/45 "2009-09-19T19:22:31Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Kenya? I think Kanye West was meant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/46 "2009-09-19T19:38:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Even if he can see without light, wouldn’t smoke block his view? IIRC, the gimmick is that his vision extends past the visible light spectrum. So he can still pick up infrared or whatever if he’s using fairly mundane smoke grenades. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/47 "2009-09-20T02:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > A late '60’s World’s Finest comic had Supie remarking that the lock Batman designed was too tough for even Brainiac to crack. How much do you want to bet that the “lock” was just welded shut, with some bells and whistles to make it look like a real lock? That’s the sort of lock that Batman would give Brainiac to solve. Thus to all Gordian knots. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/48 "2009-09-20T20:32:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think Kanye West was meant. Ummmm… _ **WHO??** _ 😉 Owell, at least I didn’t have his name as _Kenya_! :o ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/49 "2009-09-20T20:42:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think Kanye West was meant. Well, he was certainly mean. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/50 "2009-09-20T23:50:07Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > As I’ve pointed out before, the idea of Batman being a master detective or criminologist is very hard to substantiate. If you start trawling through the stories trying to find any evidence of him actually using _detective_ skills to solve a crime, or doing anything much smarter than a reasonably well-trained police detective would do, it’s very difficult. I’m not an exceptional mathematician. However, you can give me a set of numerical problems to solve and I might get the exact same correct answer that a mathematical genius gets. The big difference is that the mathematical genius is going to have the correct answer much quicker than I am. So it is with Batman. He’s simply able to connect the dots much quicker than other detectives. Also, there are plenty of examples were Batman demonstrates his detective skills. I remember one comic where Lex Luthor tries to frame Superman for a murder. Towards the end someone asks Batman “When did you know it wasn’t Superman?” Batman replies that he knew from the beginning because evidence on the scene suggested that a propulsion device was used by whoever was used by the person trying to frame Supes to enable him to fly. That’s just the first example off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/51 "2009-09-21T17:50:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think Kanye West was meant. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well, he was certainly mean. Hee hee. Now that was really funny. 😃 Just goes to show that there is a reeson for evry misstake! ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/52 "2009-09-21T21:34:55Z")
re: for those of you who doubt Batman’s detective ability, read Detective Comics. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/53 "2009-10-12T06:17:33Z")
Bump again: So, is Batman a “superhero” or not? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/54 "2009-10-12T06:55:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Bump again: So, is Batman a “superhero” or not? I go with the five-point test proposed by comic-book writer Kurt Busiek; score three or higher and you qualify as a superhero. 1. Powers. 2. Costume. 3. Codename. 4. Heroic mission. 5. Superheroic milieu. Superman, of course, is the gold standard and goes 5-for-5; Bruce Wayne may not have any powers, but so long as he’s likewise rocking the _cape-and-tights-with-underpants-on-the-outside-and-a-big-chest-emblem_ look while fighting crime and saving lives as “Batman,” he’s a solid 3 even _ **before** _ we start talking about how he doesn’t just work solo to bust muggers and murderers but also partners up with Robin to clash with Gotham’s superpowered costumed villains in between teaming up with fellow Justice Leaguers like Green Arrow and Plastic Man to stop the archenemies of Aquaman and Wonder Woman or whatever; throw in enough characters who likewise score at least a “3” and Batman promptly bumps up to a “4”. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572/55 "2009-10-17T15:12:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How much do you want to bet that the “lock” was just welded shut, with some bells and whistles to make it look like a real lock? That’s the sort of lock that Batman would give Brainiac to solve. > > Thus to all Gordian knots. I missed your post earlier, and a few days later my reply turned to vapor. Yes, that’s exactly how Batman would reason! Kudos! There was a similar concept when Proty II had to prove himself to the other Super-Pets for admission. He had to keep the Legionnnaires returning from a mission from entering the clubhouse for a few minutes. (This was one of four seemingly impossible tests.) He decided to hobble some machinery together inside the clubhouse to look like a super-weapon. But he “didn’t know any science.” So it was just a random concoction. But even Superboy and Mon-El kept hovering around the clubhouse, not daring to enter until they and Brainiac 5 figured out the weird, alien science involved. It confused them enough for the few minutes, and Proty II won that round. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-and-batman-super-heroes-or-not/510572.md?page=2)