# Captain America: Civil War Hypothetical (Open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147 "2018-01-21T21:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/21 "2018-01-22T02:59:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Vision, on the other hand, dropped a control tower on Cap and Bucky, and also knocked Rhodes out of the sky while attempting to blast Sam Wilson out of existence, while Maximoff dropped a parking garage on Stark and Cap and\*\* Scott Lang throw a fuel truck as Rhodes.\*\* It’s not very clear that anyone was really trying to hold back all that much other than Cap and Hawkeye (“You were pulling your punches!”) and I don’t know why anyone was surpised when Rhodes was seriously injured. Someone was certainly going to take a serious hit _as they destroyed an entire airport in a dispute over a UN regulation with questionable enforcibility_. > > Stranger (bolding mine) - he thought it was a water truck! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/22 "2018-01-22T03:07:57Z")
> [@simster](#): > > (bolding mine) - he thought it was a water truck! Should probably double check that before _throwing a truck at someone!_ With great power comes gr…oh, never mind. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/23 "2018-01-22T03:15:20Z")
Yeah, you’re basically creating the equivalent of the Babylon 5 Psicorps or the Jedi. “Let’s put everyone with these powers in one big organization and let them police themselves.” Great, so the most powerful and ruthless rise to the top like Bester or Sith Lords. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/24 "2018-01-22T14:21:13Z")
Yeah, the battle went lethal because it was inevitable that it would, because there’s really no other way a fight between metahumans can go. To be fair, Vision wasn’t trying to blast Wilson out of existence: He was trying to hit his jets, which would still have allowed him to glide to a landing. But that just illustrates the first paragraph: Even when supers are trying to hold back, it only takes a little bit of things going wrong to get lethal consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/25 "2018-01-22T14:44:33Z")
Frankly the whole movie lost me at the “let’s all line up and run at each other” moment, because it was clearly in the film because it looked cool and not because it’s something that all those S00per-Geniuses (well, except Ant-Man who was a doofus and Spider-Man who was a kid) would have thought the best course of action. And the destruction followed therefrom. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/26 "2018-01-22T16:41:21Z")
I pretty deliberately don’t analyze that kind of thing in superhero movies; they’re made to make cool visuals on a big screen, and that’s about it. If you start getting into the logic of it, there are tons of levels of things that don’t make sense, and you can grind out most of the backstory. As long as the plot logic isn’t so bad that I can’t tune it out and enjoy the show, it works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/27 "2018-01-22T16:45:23Z")
Superheroes and superhero comics are inherently silly. Marvel seems more willing to wink at that and go with it in its films so they don’t shy away from set pieces just to make a visual. Dramatic battle charges are part of comics and so they’re part of the Marvel films. Much like the illogical WWII naval inspired Star Wars fights, it’s a feature not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/28 "2018-01-22T16:50:40Z")
I mean, the “line up and run at each other” at least had a reason for it. Cap’s team was running together for the Quinjet. Vision stopped them. Tony’s team then formed a barrier between them and the jet. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/29 "2018-01-23T14:39:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He stopped selling weapons to other people, but by all accounts he has continued producing weapons for his personal use and that of the other Avengers, as well as a virtual fleet of flying killbots and satellite-based weapons that are almost certainly a violation of international treaties. It seems that Tony Stark was less concerned about weapons in general than he was about them finding their way into “the wrong hands”, e.g. any hands other than his own and his friends. > > Stranger You have the keys to “absolute power”. You know you can’t be trusted with them, as absolute power cannot be trusted to anyone, but you also know that you certainly cannot trust anyone else with them. What to do… What to do… Iron Man 3 had him destroying that power, but that was just a stupid idea, so I think it just got retignored. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/30 "2018-01-23T14:58:22Z")
Iron Man 3 didn’t have him destroying the power. He just destroyed the manifestation of the power. But the whole point of IM3 was that it’s he, himself, who has the power. He can destroy all of his suits, sure, but it doesn’t matter, because he’s still the genius, and he can still just build more. Which he does. Lots and lots more. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/31 "2018-01-23T15:05:54Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Superheroes and superhero comics are inherently silly. Marvel seems more willing to wink at that and go with it in its films so they don’t shy away from set pieces just to make a visual. Dramatic battle charges are part of comics and so they’re part of the Marvel films. Much like the illogical WWII naval inspired Star Wars fights, it’s a feature not a bug. I think Clint Barton said it best in Age of Ultron: “The city is flying. We’re fighting an army of robots…and I have a bow and arrow. Nothing makes sense.” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/32 "2018-01-23T16:58:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On the other hand, it’s partly because of ethical concerns that he recruited Parker in the first place. Ordinarily, when supers fight, there’s going to be a lot of damage, including to the other supers, and super-toughness only goes so far. Stark wanted to stop Rogers et al., but he didn’t actually want to kill them, because they’re his friends, and there’s an awfully thin window of stopping Captain Freaking America without killing him. Spidey is rare, not only in that he’s highly powerful, but also in that his powers are well-suited to neutralizing opponents without killing them. This is pretty much stated in the movie. Stark even makes a point of stressing that Spiderman’s methods are non-lethal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/33 "2018-01-23T18:59:12Z")
I don’t remember the movie stating it, but I saw it pointed out by a Doper (I’m thinking it might have been **CalMeacham**?) shortly afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/34 "2018-01-23T20:04:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Iron Man 3 didn’t have him destroying the power. He just destroyed the manifestation of the power. But the whole point of IM3 was that it’s he, himself, who has the power. He can destroy all of his suits, sure, but it doesn’t matter, because he’s still the genius, and he can still just build more. Which he does. Lots and lots more. IIRC (which I may not, as I only saw it once, and didn’t pay all that much attention), he “promised” not to make more. In any case, at that point, he wasn’t building the suits, his home computer/factory was. I can see the perspective though, I am not going to say that I would be responsible if given absolute power, but I know that I could never trust anyone else with it either. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/35 "2018-01-23T20:43:48Z")
Ho boy, there’s going to be an awful lot of these threads soon, now that Marvel will soon add Squirrel Girl to the cinematic lineup. > **[Squirrel Girl | Marvel Universe vs. The Avengers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_Girl#Marvel_Universe_vs._The_Avengers)** > > Squirrel Girl and Jessica Jones are killed by Luke Cage after he succumbs to the Survivor 118, a virus that causes those infected by it to become feral to the point of engaging in cannibalism. Let me jump in and defuse these early. These are pre-adult, adolescents with unformed minds, called to make life and death decisions, lack of parental guidance, blah, blah blah – SUPERHEROS. They have MUTANT SUPERPOWERS that violate all laws of physics. The rules don’t apply to them. That’s what makes these things fun. Fun, dangit. 'Member that? When we read about Harry Potter and his friends learning to fly by just jumping on? Member when John Wayne took a bunch of school boys on a cattle drive, then got murdered in the middle, and the boys completed the drive, and met whores afterward? Fun. FUN. Grrr. Arkcon. Smash keyboard. I need less coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/36 "2018-01-23T21:40:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > IIRC (which I may not, as I only saw it once, and didn’t pay all that much attention), he “promised” not to make more. No, he just executed the “Clean Slate protocol” to impress Pepper, doubtless spreading toxic debris and radioactive material all over what was already going to be a messy envrionmental remediation site. Tony Stark is about as responsible as a fourteen year old with a case of Thunderbird, a bag of fireworks, and the keys to his father’s classic GTO, except with the resources of a major defense contractor and emotiinal discipline of a meth addict. There is a reason he wasn’t in charge of the Avengers. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/37 "2018-01-24T11:50:02Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Member when John Wayne took a bunch of school boys on a cattle drive, then got murdered in the middle, and the boys completed the drive, and met whores afterward? Fun. FUN. I only saw the reboot - the one with Jack Palance instead of John Wayne and Billy Crystal and Bruno Kirby instead of schoolboys and a calf named Norman instead of whores. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/38 "2018-01-24T14:24:24Z")
We can call this a war for dramatic purposes but it really wasn’t one. Stark wasn’t taking Parker into an actual combat zone. He wasn’t asking Parker to break any laws or go to a crime scene. From a legal standpoint, all Stark did was ask Parker to go to the airport with him to meet some people he knew and ask them to comply with the law. If those people chose to say no and attack Stark, that responsibility lied with them. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/39 "2018-01-24T15:49:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > From a legal standpoint, all Stark did was ask Parker to go to the airport with him to meet some people he knew and ask them to comply with the law. It was practically a police car ride-along! I do agree that “war crimes” is overblown for a dozen brawling people, superpowers or not. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147/40 "2018-01-24T15:58:05Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > No, he just executed the “Clean Slate protocol” to impress Pepper, doubtless spreading toxic debris and radioactive material all over what was already going to be a messy envrionmental remediation site. Ah, come on, everyone knows that in comic book world, if something blows up, it disintegrates and leaves no trace, unless the plot requires a piece of shrapnel to hit a character, anyway. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Tony Stark is about as responsible as a fourteen year old with a case of Thunderbird, a bag of fireworks, and the keys to his father’s classic GTO, except with the resources of a major defense contractor and emotiinal discipline of a meth addict. There is a reason he wasn’t in charge of the Avengers. For comic book world, that’s remarkably stable. Have you seen the backstories on like, anyone? Really, somewhere between very few and none of the people with superpowers use them responsibly. The pro-registration type of people in these worlds have a very valid point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-hypothetical-open-spoilers/807147.md?page=3)