# Captain America: Civil War - Seen it! \[spoilers ahoy\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317 "2016-04-28T08:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/181 "2016-05-11T22:20:25Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The flash of the Winter Soldiers metal arm after the ‘deceased’ picture of Fury is a pretty good indicator that Hydra - and The Winter Soldier - were responsible for both of the previous two events. > > Remember - Zola knew who Bucky was to Rogers - so as soon as Rogers finds out - it becomes a 2+2 gut kick. > > As for Zemo figuring it out - he learned about it as someone upthread said - he put 2 and 2 together and finally found the tape after activating the WS. The arm flash was before the scenes of the Starks & Fury, not after. Did Steve suspect? Sure, but Zola didn’t make it clear. > [@](#): > > _and that is my biggest single nitpick for the movie - the precision of Zemo’s plan at that point - he had precise timing for when he would be alone with Bucky to activate him - precise enough timing to set off an EMP. And why the FRACK would anyone leave someone alone with him??? - but I can live with it._ Didn’t Zemo send a text that set of the EMP? As long as it was near the station, it would do what he wanted. > [@simster](#): > > Old man - driving at night - straight road/no real lighting - sleep at the wheel would be my first thought - followed by drunk, then by, well, things that are illegal in Tennessee. Or icy road - it was 23 degrees on Dec 16 1991 on Long Island. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/182 "2016-05-11T22:20:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m pretty sure that cars had headlights by 1991, and regardless of what age he might have been supposed to be, he looked 50, which isn’t all that old. Headlights don’t perfectly illuminate roads. I drive an utterly black country road all the time, and it’s very, very dark, even with my brights. That said, I’d assume speeding, if they didn’t detect alcohol on the autopsy. Plenty of people have a momentary loss of control and hit the shoulder, sucking them into a tree. Also, Howard Stark was probably at least 25 in 1941, so his character would have 65 year old eyes and reflexes, regardless of how good his skin looks. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/183 "2016-05-11T22:27:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Headlights don’t perfectly illuminate roads. I drive an utterly black country road all the time, and it’s very, very dark, even with my brights. > > That said, I’d assume speeding, if they didn’t detect alcohol on the autopsy. Plenty of people have a momentary loss of control and hit the shoulder, sucking them into a tree. > > Also, Howard Stark was probably at least 25 in 1941, so his character would have 65 year old eyes and reflexes, regardless of how good his skin looks. It’s still more badass to be taken out by HYDRA. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/184 "2016-05-11T22:28:33Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > That doesn’t explain why Stane wanted to kill Tony in the first place. Fair point - but the motivation still isn’t exactly opaque. Stane tried to kill Tony to get control of Tony’s multibillion dollar business empire. > [@](#): > > I don’t see it that way. When Tony asked him if he knew, Cap’s first response was “I didn’t know it was him”, to which Tony asked again, “Did you KNOW?” and Cap replied “Yeah, I knew.” I see that as Tony’s 2nd question being “Did you know my parents had been murdered?” not “I don’t believe you so I’m asking the same question again.” I think it was the same question in both cases. Cap had proof that the Starks were murdered by Hydra, but not proof that Bucky had been the murderer. Except, not being an idiot, Cap also knew that Bucky was almost certainly the assassin He was using that “almost” to justify not telling Tony, because he knew Tony would immediately go after Bucky with everything he had. But when Tony pressed him on it, Cap had to admit that, while he didn’t have any proof of Bucky’s involvement, he still “knew” it had to be him. Which is cool, because I think it’s a good example of Cap making the wrong choice, while still being totally a totally in-character choice for him. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/185 "2016-05-14T16:18:11Z")
One thing the movie somewhat conspicuously skirted is the issue with Thor regarding the Sokovia accords—he’s not a citizen of any of the signed countries, in fact, he’s not even human, so there’s not really any jurisdiction over him. Handed the document, he coulda just gone, ‘What care I for your human governments?’, and that’s that. Point being, the accords never really could have worked as intended, simply because the Avengers already factually operate outside of any and all law; passing _new_ laws isn’t going to change any of that. > [@Miller](#): > > It’s also… are people really that unaware of this trope? Lost societies in inaccessible locations with secrets and technology well in advance of those of the modern world is an old, old pulp fiction trope. Just a few off the top of my head: Nice rundown. If the point that this trope is fairly ubiquitous in fiction as well as myth needs any more driving home, I can heartily recommend Umberto Ecco’s _The Book of Legendary Lands_. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Tony Stark started of his arc by telling the government to fuck right off because he knew better, then he fucked everything up leading to Ultron. Captain America started his arc by working directly for a secret government agency then having to watch said entity which was created by the woman he loved get corrupted and end up as a front for Hydra. Both their decisions make perfect sense. In fact, I think this is one of the things I like most about the MCU: both Stark and Rogers have a really strong, multi-movie character arc, almost exactly switching their stances on this issue, and it’s completely believable and well worked out—you see how Rogers’ faith in authority gradually becomes undermined, shaken, and finally broken, while Stark realizes the consequences of his brash irresponsibility, becoming even traumatized by it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/186 "2016-05-14T16:26:46Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > One thing the movie somewhat conspicuously skirted is the issue with Thor regarding the Sokovia accords—he’s not a citizen of any of the signed countries, in fact, he’s not even human, so there’s not really any jurisdiction over him. Handed the document, he coulda just gone, ‘What care I for your human governments?’, and that’s that. I kind of suspect General Ross and the other authors of the Sokovia Accords are kind of hoping he does something just like that. Ross, in particular, doesn’t seem to be the sort of person who’d be really comfortable with having an alien space god walking around Manhattan, and would just as soon prefer that he go back to Asgard and stay there. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/187 "2016-05-14T16:43:53Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > One thing the movie somewhat conspicuously skirted is the issue with Thor regarding the Sokovia accords—he’s not a citizen of any of the signed countries, in fact, he’s not even human, so there’s not really any jurisdiction over him. Handed the document, he coulda just gone, ‘What care I for your human governments?’, and that’s that. > > Point being, the accords never really could have worked as intended, simply because the Avengers already factually operate outside of any and all law; passing _new_ laws isn’t going to change any of that. I guess Vision isn’t really a citizen of any signed countries either. I suppose the UN could politely ask Asgard to sign. I’m guessing they wouldn’t and I’d hate to be around when the UN tries to detain Thor and any of his Asgardian buddies who decided to pay us a visit. All signing that stupid document does is make you agree to do what the UN tells you. If you don’t sign, you’re still subject to it, and can be arrested and imprisoned without due process. You don’t even need superpowers. Hawkeye was arrested. All the government has to do is say “you’re a vigilante” and you just lost all your rights. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/188 "2016-05-14T16:50:39Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Yes, that is the problem. > > Wakanda is a wealthy, advanced nation on a continent synonymous with war, famine, disease, and weekly coups. I was always very ambivalent about Wakanda in the comics. Even for a genre that deals explicitly in power fantasies, Wakanda always felt like a load of BS to me. Your head is really going to explode if you explore the DC universe, in which there is another highly advanced secret African kingdom, populated by super-intelligent gorillas. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/189 "2016-05-14T19:07:36Z")
While I can’t quite say this is my favorite MCU movie, it’s only because the others have been so good that kicking it up a notch is nearly impossible. A very solid movie, basically Avengers 2.5, and better than _Age of Ultron_. Yeah, there are some minor flaws, but nothing major, and Zemo is now my second-favorite MCU villain. There was one point which few people noticed. And I thought was very interesting: When Bucky smashes the car into the tree, the full scene we see revealed is that Stark took one look at him and _called him by name_. Yes, he possibly met the guy briefly decades earlier, when he would have looked completely different. Between the outfit, arm, and hairstyle I don’t think Stark would have been able to identify him no matter how smart he was. Even more so, it doesn’t sound as tough Stark was immediately identifying Bucky as an assassin coming for him. He’s confused by the situation 9though granted, that kind of wreck could easily do that). So I start to wonder exactly who built that cybernetic arm, and whether or not The Winter Soldier was only a Hydra asset. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/190 "2016-05-14T19:24:34Z")
Stark did work very closely with Captain America, it would kinda weird if he didn’t know his best friend. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/191 "2016-05-14T19:53:45Z")
I just got back from seeing it. (A little late to the party). I did enjoy it, I wound’t have said it was a flawless movie, but still pretty good. About the only thing that grated to me (and this was a flaw with the original comic book story as well, although for slightly different reasons) was the set up for the conflict. Maybe you can blame an ‘in character’ mistake, but of the three incidents Ross shows them, only Slovakia was really damning, and only if you knew Ultron was created by Stark. New York was clearly an outside threat, during which mind you the Avengers were under oversight (theoretically by some sort of global body). Washington had little to do with Supers at all and didn’t involve the Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/192 "2016-05-14T21:15:08Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Stark did work very closely with Captain America, it would kinda weird if he didn’t know his best friend. Even assuming they met - which might never have happened - would be able to immediately recognize him, despite the guy looking completely different, on a dark night halfway around the world after a serious car crash fifty years later? Even for comic books, that would be an impressive feat of recall. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/193 "2016-05-15T03:40:34Z")
On a side note, the bad guy was played by Daniel Bruehl. For anyone wanting to see more of this talented German actor, we first saw him in the wonderful [Good Bye Lenin!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_1) (2003), in which he played an East German teen desperately trying to prevent his uberpatriotic mother from learning the Berlin Wall has fallen. It fell while she was in a coma, and now that she has awaken, the doctor warns that any further shocks could kill her. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/194 "2016-05-15T03:41:48Z")
On a side note, the bad guy was played by Daniel Bruehl. For anyone wanting to see more of this talented German actor, we first saw him in the wonderful [Good Bye Lenin!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_1) (2003), in which he played an East German teen desperately trying to prevent his uberpatriotic mother from learning the Berlin Wall has fallen. It fell while she was in a coma, and now that she has awoken, the doctor warns that any further shocks could kill her. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/195 "2016-05-15T03:56:33Z")
Plus, y’know, INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/196 "2016-05-15T04:07:11Z")
That too, but _Good Bye Lenin!_ really launched his career, and he was the star of it. Well worth a look. (Sorry about the double post above. My computer started having weird hiccups, and I had to reboot.) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/197 "2016-05-15T06:06:56Z")
Agreed with **Siam Sam** that _Goodbye, Lenin_ is a great film on multiple levels that deserves rewatching, and Daniel Bruehl is fantastic in it, as is Katrin Sass, and Tatar actress Chulpan Khamatov. It is somewhat unfortunate that Bruehl’s villain so low key, but that is intentional, demonstrating that the greatest threat to the Avengers is themsevles, and especially the arrogance of Tony Stark, who presumes (along with General Ross) to pass judgement even though neither was there to deal with the immediate threat. It is always easier to judge after the fact than to make decisions in the field and have to deal with the consequences of mistakes (which both Captain America and Scarlett Witch freely admit to). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/198 "2016-05-15T15:32:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Your head is really going to explode if you explore the DC universe, in which there is another highly advanced secret African kingdom, populated by super-intelligent gorillas. _Telepathic_ super-intelligent gorillas. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/199 "2016-05-15T17:58:12Z")
Errrrr, **Siam Sam** , it was not that she was uber patriotic, the doctors had stated that the shock of the change might kill her. 😉 Another excellent movie he was in was **Rush**. Ironically opposite Chris Hemsworth. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/200 "2016-05-15T21:21:32Z")
Incidentally, as of today Box Office Mojo has CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR as (a) having already outgrossed BATMAN V SUPERMAN, and (b) closing in on a billion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317.md?page=11)