# Captain America: Civil War - Seen it! \[spoilers ahoy\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317 "2016-04-28T08:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/261 "2016-05-17T12:07:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My understanding is that they would have been free to go as long as they didn’t use their powers. They weren’t breaking any laws just by living normal lives. > > The purpose of signing the accords was that it created an exemption to the general ban on using super powers. They would be allowed to use their super powers and help people as long as they did so within the rules set by the accords. Using super powers outside of those rules would be illegal. Using super powers at all, or using them for crime fighting activities that would otherwise be illegal? If Cap sees a woman trapped under a burning car, and used his super strength to lift it, is he in violation of the Accords? If Wanda uses her witch powers to float a bowl of cereal from the kitchen to the living room while she’s watching “The View”, is that a violation? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/262 "2016-05-17T12:15:41Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Using super powers at all, or using them for crime fighting activities that would otherwise be illegal? If Cap sees a woman trapped under a burning car, and used his super strength to lift it, is he in violation of the Accords? If Wanda uses her witch powers to float a bowl of cereal from the kitchen to the living room while she’s watching “The View”, is that a violation? I don’t think we can discuss the fine points of a fictional law about super powers in that detail. I was just discussing the possible general concept of the law as it worked in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/263 "2016-05-17T12:17:38Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I think we the audience really understand the character’s principles and motivations and Renner is getting some great laughs with the character. I agree. The Hawkeye character and Renner’s performance are some of my favorite things from the franchise. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/264 "2016-05-17T12:20:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think we can discuss the fine points of a fictional law about super powers in that detail. I was just discussing the possible general concept of the law as it worked in the movie. Sure, but my point is that why do you even need the Accords, unless the Accords do something outside normal existing laws? AFAICT, what Cap’s team did in Lagos was flat out illegal. The Avengers have no government powers whatsoever. Nigeria would have been perfectly within their rights to demand extradition of every Avenger present, and prosecute them for various crimes up to and including murder. So how do the Accords change that? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/265 "2016-05-17T12:31:39Z")
I don’t think it was in the movie at all, but in Agents of SHIELD when they mentioned the Accords it was said that they required every enhanced human to register and subject themselves to a power assessment and threat evaluation. Regardless of how they then used or didn’t use their powers. Whereas the movie made it sound more like something that specifically applied to the Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/266 "2016-05-17T13:07:06Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > FWIW, the first comic I ever saw Hawkeye in was the one where _he_ concludes that he’s kind of useless after the Vision’s tremendous powers save the day with an assist from the Black Panther’s handy tech – and so he jettisons his costumed identity to start a new career as Goliath, thanks to his teammate’s Pym particles. > > Perfect aim? Cool. Perfect aim when you can throw cars around? _Wow._ Stupid Movie Nitpick: When Tony says to Hawkeye that he should be playing golf, and Hawkeye says “I played 18, I shot 18, where’s the fun?”. I don’t care how perfect your aim is, a normal human without strength powers can’t drive the ball 500 yards, especially if the course doglegs and he would have to hit it over trees or whatever. A foreign girl with magic mind powers taking over the body of a sentient robot made of an impossible metal I can believe. But getting an ace on a par 5? Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/267 "2016-05-17T13:13:34Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Stupid Movie Nitpick: When Tony says to Hawkeye that he should be playing golf, and Hawkeye says “I played 18, I shot 18, where’s the fun?”. > > I don’t care how perfect your aim is, a normal human without strength powers can’t drive the ball 500 yards, especially if the course doglegs and he would have to hit it over trees or whatever. > > A foreign girl with magic mind powers taking over the body of a sentient robot made of an impossible metal I can believe. But getting an ace on a par 5? Bullshit. It appears that par 5 hole in ones [have occurred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_in_one#Holes-in-one_on_par_5_.28or_higher.29_holes), though extremely rarely. But maybe he just went on an all par-3 course. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/268 "2016-05-17T13:21:51Z")
Maybe it was miniature golf. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/269 "2016-05-17T13:23:29Z")
There was a lot to enjoy in this movie. But I didn’t love it the way I loved my favorite superhero films. Which, FTR, are, in no particular order: _Deadpool_; the Avengers movies, especially the first one; the first two X-Men movies, especially the second one; the first Iron Man movie; and the first Andrew Garfield Spider-Man outing (definitely not the second). But it was better than _Thor_, or the other Captain America movies for sure. In particular, I had a problem (as is so often the case with these superhero-vs.-superhero stories) with the way various characters’ powers matched up against each other. There were characters who were hella powerful, yet got stymied or even defeated for no other reason than that the plot called for it, or maybe in one case because it is technically a “Captain America” movie and not an “Iron Man” or “Avengers” movie. In the airport fight, Vision and Scarlet Witch would be shown very briefly kicking ass (which it doesn’t take them much time to do), and then the camera would rotate for a good while to the other characters. When they rotated back around to Vision and SW, they did not appear to have done much of anything in the interim. On a smoke break, maybe? Also not sure how I feel about Marisa Tomei as Aunt May; and Spider-Man’s motion is back to the cartoony, massless style, after the huge improvement in _Amazing Spider-Man_ obtained by using stuntmen swinging on actual cables. And don’t get me started on how little Bucky’s (“Winter Soldier”) powers make sense. It’s like operating a super-powerful crane that’s mounted on quicksand. But there were lots of good action setpieces, funny, quippy dialogue, and a central dilemma that was actually thought-provoking. > [@GuanoLad](#): > > Oh, here’s something. Like _Ant-Man_ did with Michael Douglas, the achievement of a young Tony Stark is _amazing!_ This level of CGI opens up incredible possibilities for the future. Yeah, that was cray-cray. The 2013 film [The Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Congress_(2013_film)) started out going into this very interesting idea, with movie stars getting a one-time payout to be “scanned” and essentially have their youthful likenesses become eternal property of the movie studios…before the movie took a bizarre left turn into total la-la land (almost literally). > [@obfusciatrist](#): > > One thing I really liked is that they had a movie with real tension and conflict without it requiring an existential threat to the country, planet, universe. I really liked that too. Constantly having the world/universe in peril gets old. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I get guild over Ultron. But Lagos? If SW hadnt sent the bomb up there it would have killed many, many more. > > Guilt over NYC? If the Avengers hadn’t intervened the aliens would have killed \*everyone. \* > > And what I hated was that none of the Avengers even challenged what’s his name, the civilian leader-asshole about this. Thunderbolt Ross (whom I always knew from the Hulk comics as an Army general; but in this, I suppose he is a civilian). Yeah, good points. Still, I do think there is a case to be made for not letting supers just run rampant. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/270 "2016-05-17T15:24:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And don’t get me started on how little Bucky’s (“Winter Soldier”) powers make sense. It’s like operating a super-powerful crane that’s mounted on quicksand. I thought that at first too, but after watching him fight a lot, the rest of his body seems augmented to superhuman strength levels too, plus the other Winter Soldiers didn’t seem to have any metal parts but were clearly super strong. They must have developed some sort of super soldier serum or something. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/271 "2016-05-17T15:29:48Z")
Huh, okay. I suppose in general, I have trouble accepting the movie version of “super soldier”, after growing up on comics in which it was clearly laid out as being “peak normal human” level in strength and agility. So basically an Olympic gold medalist in any event you can think of, but not at such a level where you’d lap the field. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/272 "2016-05-17T15:38:15Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I thought that at first too, but after watching him fight a lot, the rest of his body seems augmented to superhuman strength levels too, plus the other Winter Soldiers didn’t seem to have any metal parts but were clearly super strong. They must have developed some sort of super soldier serum or something. Yeah, my understanding is that Bucky-without-the-arm is still basically Cap Lite. We also see Zola’s doctors doing quite a bit of experimentation and augmentation on his body in the quick flashbacks in “Winter Soldier,” and as **levdrakon** mentioned, the other Winter Soldiers also have superhuman strength. In fact, that Bucky took a beating from one of them and didn’t have his chest cavity crushed in the process indicates that he at least has physical resilience way above the norm. I think Bucky’s metal arm is actually only there because his entire left arm was ripped off when he fell down the mountain (or at least was so mangled that they had to amputate it, Robocop-style). The metal arm clearly has even greater strength than his remaining organic arm, but his organic bits are also clearly super-strong in and of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/273 "2016-05-17T15:38:38Z")
He’s a russian knock off of captain america with a cybernetic arm to make up the difference, he’s not just a dude with a metal arm. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/274 "2016-05-17T15:45:39Z")
Even still, whenever you see cybernetics in movies you just have to sort of let it go and not think about the fact that “catching a car with your robot arm” just means that you have a big bloody hole where the robot arm was once attached to your body. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/275 "2016-05-17T15:59:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Even still, whenever you see cybernetics in movies you just have to sort of let it go and not think about the fact that “catching a car with your robot arm” just means that you have a big bloody hole where the robot arm was once attached to your body. LOL…thanks for colorfully illustrating what I was trying to say. I have a tough time forgetting this! I could never accept it with Steve Austin, the “Six Million Dollar Man”, either. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/276 "2016-05-17T16:05:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > LOL…thanks for colorfully illustrating what I was trying to say. I have a tough time forgetting this! I could never accept it with Steve Austin, the “Six Million Dollar Man”, either. They retconned this in the TV movie about Steve Austin’s son getting bionics by saying that they also reinforced Steve’s skeleton and joints with metal to allow him to use his superstrength without ripping his arm off his body. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/277 "2016-05-17T16:14:02Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Huh, okay. I suppose in general, I have trouble accepting the movie version of “super soldier”, after growing up on comics in which it was clearly laid out as being “peak normal human” level in strength and agility. So basically an Olympic gold medalist in any event you can think of, but not at such a level where you’d lap the field. I think the problem is power level creep in comics. In 1940 “peak human fitness levels” was cool but before long pretty much every super hero had “peak human fitness levels” so Cap had to get stronger than that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/278 "2016-05-17T16:18:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Huh, okay. I suppose in general, I have trouble accepting the movie version of “super soldier”, after growing up on comics in which it was clearly laid out as being “peak normal human” level in strength and agility. So basically an Olympic gold medalist in any event you can think of, but not at such a level where you’d lap the field. The movie version seems to be something like as fast as Usain Bolt, but with the stamina to sustain his top speed for miles and miles; as strong as the strongest man in the world (say, Hafthor Bjornsson), with the same extreme stamina that enables him to maintain full power through a long fight sequence; the agility of the greatest gymnast ever; etc. I’m not sure how that compares to the comics version. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/279 "2016-05-17T16:35:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The movie version seems to be something like as fast as Usain Bolt, but with the stamina to sustain his top speed for miles and miles; as strong as the strongest man in the world (say, Hafthor Bjornsson), with the same extreme stamina that enables him to maintain full power through a long fight sequence; the agility of the greatest gymnast ever; etc. I’m not sure how that compares to the comics version. Depends on who’s writing it. Generally though, the MCU version seems to be stronger and with a greater capacity for healing. It was mentioned in the first CA movie that his cells regenerate too fast to get drunk…that’s not Wolverine levels, but it’s way more than peak human. That would be like having an IV of HGH in perpetuity. He can get stronger and faster than any human ever could because his body heals the micro-tears in the muscles from exercise almost instantaneously. One assumes his bones and joints strengthen in proportion as well. In practice, he seems to be at least as strong as Jessica Jones from the Netflix series ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/280 "2016-05-17T16:52:38Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Stupid Movie Nitpick: When Tony says to Hawkeye that he should be playing golf, and Hawkeye says “I played 18, I shot 18, where’s the fun?”. > > I don’t care how perfect your aim is, a normal human without strength powers can’t drive the ball 500 yards, especially if the course doglegs and he would have to hit it over trees or whatever. > > A foreign girl with magic mind powers taking over the body of a sentient robot made of an impossible metal I can believe. But getting an ace on a par 5? Bullshit. Or it could be joking banter between two friends and not an accurate retelling of an event. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317.md?page=15)