# Captain America: Civil War - Seen it! \[spoilers ahoy\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317 "2016-04-28T08:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/81 "2016-05-08T21:12:29Z")
I’m not super jazzed about Captain America getting more and more powerful with each outing. An important part of the mythology for me is that he is at the peak of human fitness, but he’s still very much human. In this film, he’s kicking trucks around and jumping down four stories onto concrete without nary a scratch. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the first movie, but I recall him being pretty tame back then, even if he did kick a bunch of ass. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/82 "2016-05-08T21:23:09Z")
I’m reading this thread, and without naming names, there are some people who should stay away from superhero movies, and some who should just stay away from any movie. This movie handled the genre with aplomb. Far more pluses than minuses, IMNSHO, so I don’t focus on the minuses. It’s not like this is the newest F4, where one has to search hard for a plus. Some of youz guyz just ain’t happy if you aren’t bitchin’ and moanin’ about something, cuz that’s what the kool kidz do. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/83 "2016-05-08T21:50:53Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > I’m not super jazzed about Captain America getting more and more powerful with each outing. An important part of the mythology for me is that he is at the peak of human fitness, but he’s still very much human. In this film, he’s kicking trucks around and jumping down four stories onto concrete without nary a scratch. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the first movie, but I recall him being pretty tame back then, even if he did kick a bunch of ass. I sort of had that feeling during the big Iron Man fight. Even at the peak of human fitness, repeatedly punching a metal mask isn’t going to do much besides ruin your pianist career. Didn’t ruin the scene or anything for me. But I couldn’t really guess where Captain America’s limits are. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/84 "2016-05-08T22:09:04Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Even when they highlight one of them, they involve multiple characters (specially Cap’s, IM is more IM-centric - hey, just like the dudes inside the suits!). Actually no, this is the first time one of the Marvel characters _who gets their own movie_ appeared in someone else’s movie. All the others have been non-primary and sidekick crossovers - War Machine in IM 2 & 3, Black Widow and Falcon in Captain America 2, Hawkeye in Thor, Falcon in Ant Man. The closest thing to a primary crossover was Cap’s cameo in Thor 2, but that doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/85 "2016-05-08T22:26:49Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Actually no, this is the first time one of the Marvel characters _who gets their own movie_ appeared in someone else’s movie. All the others have been non-primary and sidekick crossovers - War Machine in IM 2 & 3, Black Widow and Falcon in Captain America 2, Hawkeye in Thor, Falcon in Ant Man. The closest thing to a primary crossover was Cap’s cameo in Thor 2, but that doesn’t count. On the thinnest of technicalities, INCREDIBLE HULK had a Tony Stark cameo. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/86 "2016-05-08T22:38:28Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I’m reading this thread, and without naming names, there are some people who should stay away from superhero movies, and some who should just stay away from any movie. This movie handled the genre with aplomb. Far more pluses than minuses, IMNSHO, so I don’t focus on the minuses. It’s not like this is the newest F4, where one has to search hard for a plus. Some of youz guyz just ain’t happy if you aren’t bitchin’ and moanin’ about something, cuz that’s what the kool kidz do. Protip: it’s possible to criticize a movie and still like it. I stand before you as proof. I had extremely high hopes for this. The CA movies have been my favorite Marvel Movies. Even the first one which most people think of as filler, I would put in my top 5 easily. I wanted to absolutely love this movie and I just liked it because it has flaws (some of which are similar flaws that Avengers 2 had which might be nothing; might be a sign of trouble) so I was a little disappointed. Still think it’s a good movie though (but I wanted it to be a great one). Also the movie appears to be almost universally praised online so if the Cool Kids are bashing it, they’re doing it in their sleep. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/87 "2016-05-08T23:01:09Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Protip: it’s possible to criticize a movie and still like it. I stand before you as proof. I had extremely high hopes for this. The CA movies have been my favorite Marvel Movies. Even the first one which most people think of as filler, I would put in my top 5 easily. I wanted to absolutely love this movie and I just liked it because it has flaws (some of which are similar flaws that Avengers 2 had which might be nothing; might be a sign of trouble) so I was a little disappointed. Still think it’s a good movie though (but I wanted it to be a great one). > > Also the movie appears to be almost universally praised online so if the Cool Kids are bashing it, they’re doing it in their sleep. But you (I don’t think, as I didn’t check user names) aren’t complaining about the absurdity of the physics around a man who can shrink and grow in a superhero movie. I can also come up with flaws…my biggest superhero movie gripe is the inconsistency of powers (though this also occurs in comics, so it is not unique to film). If one can’t roll with the physical absurdity that surrounds any super power, one shouldn’t be in a super hero movie (or read comics). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/88 "2016-05-08T23:02:42Z")
Just saw it this afternoon. I liked it. Didn’t love it. Like Batman v Superman, it was overly long for no real reason other than to shoehorn in hidden teasers for future Marvel films (Spider-man, Black Panther) and kind of wandered a bit plotwise. I did like that they’re expanding the relationship teasers between Wanda and Vision, although I’m willing to concede that that’s just my knowledge of print-Marvel storylines making insignificant interactions look significant if someone could convince me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/89 "2016-05-08T23:10:34Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > But you (I don’t think, as I didn’t check user names) aren’t complaining about the absurdity of the physics around a man who can shrink and grow in a superhero movie. What? He gets stronger when he grows, because he keeps his full strength when he shrinks – and he shrinks by reducing the space between his atoms, and so he can shrink down to smaller than an atom. The math totally checks out! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/90 "2016-05-08T23:15:55Z")
Black Panther was awesome, by the way, and was introduced very well. Really looking forward to his movie. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/91 "2016-05-08T23:34:05Z")
> [@the other waldo pepper](#): > > what? He gets stronger when he grows, because he keeps his full strength when he shrinks – and he shrinks by reducing the space between his atoms, and so he can shrink down to smaller than an atom. The math totally checks out! _Exactly_! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/92 "2016-05-08T23:36:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > On the thinnest of technicalities, INCREDIBLE HULK had a Tony Stark cameo. And even thinner - there was a shot of CA’s Shield in Iron Man 1. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/93 "2016-05-09T00:38:09Z")
Gotta admit. That’s how you make a superhero movie. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/94 "2016-05-09T00:49:38Z")
> [@simster](#): > > And even thinner - there was a shot of CA’s Shield in Iron Man 1. _Iron Man 2_ – Tony Stark uses it to prop up a brace on the cyclotron that he uses to make the new element to powers his upgraded ARC reactor. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/95 "2016-05-09T03:40:36Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > I’m not super jazzed about Captain America getting more and more powerful with each outing. An important part of the mythology for me is that he is at the peak of human fitness, but he’s still very much human. In this film, he’s kicking trucks around and jumping down four stories onto concrete without nary a scratch. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the first movie, but I recall him being pretty tame back then, even if he did kick a bunch of ass. He’s “peak of human potential” Comics Captain America is way stronger and faster than any human being in real life has ever been. Even in The First Avenger he was throwing people around like they were rag dolls ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/96 "2016-05-09T03:43:41Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _Iron Man 2_ – Tony Stark uses it to prop up a brace on the cyclotron that he uses to make the new element to powers his upgraded ARC reactor. > > Stranger Iron Man 1 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIVeuYqjMlk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIVeuYqjMlk) Iron Mane 2 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvcwPttQsIc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvcwPttQsIc) ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/97 "2016-05-09T05:17:37Z")
Saw it today… liked it. It’s good, but I don’t think it’s as good as Winter Soldier or the first Avengers. The fights were fun but it was loooong. I’m annoyed that they used “Zemo” like this. The bad guy could have been named anything–he didn’t have any identifying traits of Zemo. He’s a schemer and that’s it. I liked Black Panther, but I don’t think I could take a whole movie of that actor talking in the soft breathy voice. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/98 "2016-05-09T05:37:09Z")
> [@GovernmentMan](#): > > He’s “peak of human potential” > > Comics Captain America is way stronger and faster than any human being in real life has ever been. Even in The First Avenger he was throwing people around like they were rag dolls Yeah, it’s clear that, while he doesn’t have the strength or healing factor of the Hulk, his quickness, dexterity, and stamina are well beyond human potential, and his resistance to and function with injury is extraordinary. Notice that his skills improve as he gains confidence (e.g. using a parachute in _Avengers_ while making a diving jump,without in _Winter Soldier_) but he isn’t immune to injury and does get winded. (This is sometimes played inconsistantly, especially in _Winter Soldier_ where after dispatching a dozen or so mooks with ease he struggles to fight Baltroc, when he should have just been able to kick his chest in, or how a couple of pistol bullets almost incapacitate him in the helicarrier battle.) His biggest asset, though, is his moral center; he does what he thinks is right, not because it is convenient or because he is told to, but because he holds to his ideals regardless of pressure to conform. This seems to sustain him as much as his physiological enhancements. Unfortunately, _Age of Ultron_ really missed the opportunity to play out those doubts even though it would have been the perfect setup for _Civil War_. > [@simster](#): > > Iron Man 1 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIVeuYqjMlk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIVeuYqjMlk) > > Iron Mane 2 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvcwPttQsIc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvcwPttQsIc) I stand corrected. It looks, though, like that is a partial shield or the backplate of a shield, perhaps a second article but missing the vibranium shell. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/99 "2016-05-09T11:51:24Z")
I still don’t think Cap is meant to be beyond “human potential”, but rather at peak human potential in all characteristics. So he’s as strong as the strongest human ever to live, while also being as fast as the fastest human ever to live, with the stamina of the best long-distance runner ever, and the agility of the best gymnast ever, etc. This combination of traits is superhuman, but taken alone, each of them is not: e.g. he can run as fast as (or even a bit faster than) Usain Bolt, but sustain that speed for miles, at the same time as kicking mooks and sending them flying (which, presumably, an enormously strong and trained fighter could do at least once in a while). ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317/100 "2016-05-09T13:02:04Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > this is a movie that’s somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes too long > [@jayjay](#): > > it was overly long > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > it was loooong. I’m surprised at these complaints. After the movie, when I got back into my car and looked at the clock, I couldn’t believe how late it was. This movie moved at a very quick pace for me. It felt like a 100 minute movie. When I looked at the clock and saw that three hours had passed I couldn’t believe it (2.5 hour movie + time to buy tickets + previews). I went again the next day and it seemed to go just as fast. As to Spider-man feeling shoehorned in, that’s how I _expected_ to feel about it but I actually thought it worked very well. I read a interview with the Russos and they said they really wanted to have an outsider on each team- someone for whom this wouldn’t be an overly brooding emotional conflict. Ant-Man fulfilled that role on Cap’s side and they needed someone to fill that role on Stark’s side. It’s not what I was thinking of while I watched the movie but, in retrospect, I think they were right. Those two characters really lightened up what otherwise would have been a very emotionally heavy battle scene. Another thing they said in the interviews which really makes sense (although I think it should have been highlighted a little better in the movie) was that Stark’s main attraction to Spider-man was that Spidey has a very effective non-lethal means of subduing a foe (his webs). Non-lethal means to take down your opponent, it’s something really important when doing battle with friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-seen-it-spoilers-ahoy/753317.md?page=6)