# Captain America: Civil War trailer **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534 "2015-11-25T12:41:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/121 "2016-03-11T22:03:58Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > If you listen closely, when his eyes narrow you can hear a slight mechanical whirr. So either he designed it that way or this is a new costume courtesy of Tony. Yep, it’s there. Gonna be interesting to see how it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/122 "2016-03-11T22:37:18Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > I think the similarities are there, but overstated. X-Men has always been about race. The mutants have doubled for racial minorities since X-Men was invented in 1963. Well, no, not really. There’s no real evidence that Lee and Kirby intended the X-Men to be a racial metaphor, and the early comics really don’t support that read very well. Despite the “Protecting a world that hates and fears them” tag line, prejudice and oppression were not major themes in the early X-Men comics. I’ve not seen any strong evidence that anyone at the time even perceived this metaphor in the book. It’s not until Christ Claremont took over the title in the late '70s and '80s that the theme of mutants as victims of widespread social injustice took hold, at which point a lot of the race metaphor was effectively retroactively grafted onto the franchise. There’s some serious problems with the X-Men as race metaphor, too, particularly in the earlier issues. Comparing MLK, a committed pacifist and social integrator, with Professor X, who keeps his mutants secret while training them as a paramilitary group is problematic, but not half as much as comparing Malcolm X to a terrorist who literally has tried to destroy the Earth. But, really, the biggest problem with this interpretation is that it gives you a book that’s supposed to be about race, _that features an entirely white cast._ There were similar problems a few years back, when some writers tried to shoehorn the X-books into a gay rights metaphor, without (again) having any significant gay characters in the books. It’s also hard to argue against a stereotype that a particular minority are a danger to society, by using stand-ins for that can shoot laser beams from their eyes. Acting like blacks or gays are some special threat to society is profoundly ignorant and bigoted. Acting like mutants are some special threat to society is just being observant. If Malcolm X had the ability to reverse the magnetic poles as an act of will, thereby causing a global extinction event, then comparing mutants to black people would make sense. But if black people regularly had those sorts of abilities, treating them different under the law is arguably a reasonable course of action. The X-Men work best as a generalized metaphor for oppression, without expressly tying it to any real-world social issue. If a black kid sees Colossus as an inspiration for how to deal with assholes, or a gay kid deals with being rejected at home by really getting into Nightcrawler, or a bullied kid likes to pretend to be Cyclops\* to make himself feel better, that’s great. But when you take some [people who looks like this](http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015321/rs_560x282-150421093659-x-men.jpg), who were created by [guys who look like this](http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Lee.jpg), and say they’re supposed to be a stand [in for these people](http://www.amistadresource.org/LBimages/image_08_03_030_R07-2010.jpg)… that’s getting a little patronizing. \*I’m joking here, of course. Nobody looks up to Cyclops. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/123 "2016-03-11T23:06:08Z")
Tom Holland, who plays Spidey, is 19. I dunno what he sounds like, though. But the character is supposed to be high school aged. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/124 "2016-03-11T23:13:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But, really, the biggest problem with this interpretation is that it gives you a book that’s supposed to be about race, _that features an entirely white cast._. _cough Storm, cough._ And Iceman is gay, fyi. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/125 "2016-03-11T23:16:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Tom Holland, who plays Spidey, is 19. I dunno what he sounds like, though. But the character is supposed to be high school aged. No, Spiderman’s \*origin \*was when he was in HS. He’s also a college student alter, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/126 "2016-03-12T00:17:03Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > . . . Its only when that government starts rounding people up without trial, then he starts opposing them. Which was why his behavior in A vs X was so badly written: he was insisting on taking up Hope Summers without a trial! One of the grossest mis-portrayals of a character ever. (Another was in Civil War where Reed Richards was happy sending people to the Negative Zone as a prison.) (By the way, I’m really grinning at “Pleasant Hill,” Maria Hill’s informal prison for super-baddies. At least it’s in character for her!) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/127 "2016-03-12T00:54:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _cough Storm, cough._ First introduced in 1976, 13 years after the book that “was about race since it was first published” came out. > [@](#): > > And Iceman is gay, fyi. Yeah, as of last year. The gay metaphor thing is a little bit older than that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/128 "2016-03-12T01:18:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Acting like blacks or gays are some special threat to society is profoundly ignorant and bigoted. Acting like mutants are some special threat to society is just being observant. Two things… 1. Holy crap, that’s a great line. I will shamelessly steal it from this point on. 2. Say what you want about X-Men comics but when Bryan Singer had Bobby Drake’s mother say, “[Have you tried NOT being a mutant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxLrH5ydSMM)?” in X2 he was on target. It may not be the best mapping on the gay experience but I bet there were some parents out there who heard themselves in that line. Maybe it helped. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/129 "2016-03-12T02:59:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > First introduced in 1976, 13 years after the book that “was about race since it was first published” came out. The comic was hardly known in the 1960’s. Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch were Romani from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/130 "2016-03-12T03:02:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The comic was hardly known in the 1960’s. Yes. And? > [@](#): > > Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch were Romani from the start. Yes. And? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/131 "2016-03-12T03:05:37Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Two things… > > 1. Holy crap, that’s a great line. I will shamelessly steal it from this point on. > > 2. Say what you want about X-Men comics but when Bryan Singer had Bobby Drake’s mother say, “[Have you tried NOT being a mutant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxLrH5ydSMM)?” in X2 he was on target. It may not be the best mapping on the gay experience but I bet there were some parents out there who heard themselves in that line. Maybe it helped. 1. Thanks! Help yourself! 2. Yeah, that was a good line. I don’t have a problem with drawing referrents to real world civil rights issue, it’s just when the story as a whole is taken as a metaphor for one of these struggles that it tends to devalue not just the real world struggle, but the fiction itself. Sort of like how Tolkien was adamant that Lord of the Rings was not a metaphor for WWII, despite having some aspects of it that were clearly inspired by contemporary events when Tolkien was writing it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/132 "2016-03-12T03:12:44Z")
Hey, they’re not all white! Beast and Nightcrawler are blue. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/133 "2016-03-12T04:57:10Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > To my knowledge yes. What I have read is that each new Marvel Universe hero intro’d, they are grafting a superhero movie onto a classic genre. Ant-Man = crime caper; Cap = 70’s conspiracy movies; DDevil = gritty 70’s street movies, etc. > > I believe now that Spider-Man is under the MCU umbrella, they are grafting it onto a John Hughes, teen movie type of genre. Fantastic. Now Tony Stark is Bender. Cap is Andrew. Banner is Brian. Black Widow is Claire. Scarlet Witch is Allison. Or maybe Vision is Lisa from Weird Science and Stark and Thor are Wyatt and Gary. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/134 "2016-03-12T05:38:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But, really, the biggest problem with this interpretation is that it gives you a book that’s supposed to be about race, _that features an entirely white cast._ I’m not completely disagreeing with you but you missed the point here. If mutants were a metaphor for race, it would make sense to use a group of mutants who are white. The point would be to make the typical white male comic book reader think about what it would feel like if people who looked like he did were the subject of oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/135 "2016-03-12T05:42:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Fantastic. Now Tony Stark is Bender. Cap is Andrew. Banner is Brian. Black Widow is Claire. Scarlet Witch is Allison. No no no. If Tony Stark is Bender, then Cap is Fry, Banner is Zoidberg, Black Widow is Leela, Scarlet Witch is Amy - and Nick Fury is the Professor. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/136 "2016-03-12T06:32:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > \*I’m joking here, of course. Nobody looks up to Cyclops. 😃 It’s funny because it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/137 "2016-03-12T06:33:54Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > Hell, replace the actor halfway through “Civil War”. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m still amazed this didn’t happen with the BEWITCHED movie. Luis Bunuel did something like this with _That Obscure Object of Desire_. He cast two actresses, Carole Bouquet and Angela Molina, in the role of Conchita and then switched back and forth between them during the filming. Sometimes he would even switch them within a single scene. Bunuel said that this was supposed to show that Mathieu’s love for Conchita was internal - Mathieu is concerned with his own emotions and doesn’t really pay much attention to the actual Conchita, the supposed target of those emotions. Bunuel may have proved his point. Many people supposedly watched the movie and didn’t notice that two women were playing the part. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/138 "2016-03-12T07:45:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes. And? > > Yes. And? Romani are persecuted minorities. fyi. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/139 "2016-03-12T18:42:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Romani are persecuted minorities. fyi. Yes. And? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534/140 "2016-03-12T19:21:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch were Romani from the start. No they weren’t. Not ever. At one time they were raised by a Romani couple, but they were never Romani by blood. Even **that** was a retcon from the 90s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-america-civil-war-trailer/738534.md?page=8)