# Captain Beefheart or Frank Zappa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921 "2012-04-16T03:52:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/1 "2012-04-16T03:52:02Z")
Or both? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/2 "2012-04-16T04:26:12Z")
I like 'em both, but I voted for Beefheart because I like his stuff a lot more. Zappa’s music was a lot more self-conciously “clever” while Beefheart at his best (Safe as Milk, Clear Spot, Shiny Beast/Bat Chain Puller) was just pure inspiration. (I like Trout Mask Replica, but I prefer the other albums I mentioned.) To me, Zappa is a footnote to Beefheart, though I expect Zappa fans will be highly offended by that opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/3 "2012-04-16T08:57:26Z")
Pretty much what **Shakester** said, only switching the two people in question ;). I think Zappa merits something close to the “genius” label and Beefheart, though good, was a bit more limited. But I appreciate them both, just Zappa moreso. I actually am a bigger fan of Zappa’s large body of instrumental work as opposed to his occasionally clever, occasionally “self-consciously clever” ( yeah, he was at times ) and occasionally puerile lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/4 "2012-04-16T09:06:27Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > To me, Zappa is a footnote to Beefheart, though I expect Zappa fans will be highly offended by that opinion. Yup. I think you have that backwards. Beefheart is mostly a footnote to Frank, and many of the people in his bands point out that most of the stuff he did was things that they did, that he took the credit for. John French, drummer on _Trout Mask Replica_, is quoted on Wikipedia’s [Captain Beefheart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart#Beefheart_takes_the_lead) page as having said this: > [@](#): > > If Van Vliet built a house like he wrote music, the methodology would go something like this… The house is sketched on the back of a Denny’s placemat in such an odd fashion that when he presents it to the contractor without plans or research, the contractor says “This structure is going to be hard to build, it’s going to be tough to make it safe and stable because it is so unique in design.” Van Vliet then yells at the contractor and intimidates him into doing the job anyway. The contractor builds the home, figuring out all the intricacies involved in structural integrity himself because whenever he approaches Van Vliet, he finds that he seems completely unable to comprehend technical problems and just yells, “Quit asking me about this stuff and build the damned house.”… When the house is finished no one gets paid, and Van Vliet has a housewarming party, invites none of the builders and tells the guests he built the whole thing himself. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/5 "2012-04-16T12:49:20Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > Yup. I think you have that backwards. Beefheart is mostly a footnote to Frank, and many of the people in his bands point out that most of the stuff he did was things that they did, that he took the credit for. John French, drummer on _Trout Mask Replica_, is quoted on Wikipedia’s [Captain Beefheart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart#Beefheart_takes_the_lead) page as having said this… Where did I say Beefheart was a nice person? For all that Beefheart supposedly stole from other people, all of his bands sounded like Beefheart, and no one else, including Beefheart’s former collaborators, has ever sounded quite like Beefheart. Obviously he added something unique to the mix that no one else has ever managed to replicate. Please note that I also said I like Zappa, and I’m not trying to diminish his work, just that from my non-American perspective I see a LOT more influence from the Captain in the (good) music of the last few decades than I do from Zappa. Two examples: Nick Cave and Tom Waits. Can you name anyone as influential and acclaimed as those guys who owes a debt to Zappa in the same way that Cave and Waits owe debts to Beefheart? I like Frank, but Don has had a _lot_ more influence on the world’s good music. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/6 "2012-04-16T12:49:46Z")
I like them both. They weren’t really doing the same thing. Zappa was melding classical and jazz and blues and doo-wop. He was also a social satirist. Captain Beefheart was completely sui generis. ETA, reading **lawoot’s** post and assuming the analogy is correct, then Beefheart _did_ deserve all the credit – he created the work and made sure it came to pass. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/7 "2012-04-16T14:05:55Z")
both were great. if you compare music similar time frame and lyric centered song they had lots of similarity. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/8 "2012-04-16T14:14:46Z")
Beefheart, because he did a handful of interesting things, but the poll would be better with options for _meh_ and _bleh_. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/9 "2012-04-16T15:32:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Captain Beefheart was completely sui generis. I wouldn’t say completely. There was an obvious debt to Howlin’ Wolf and some of his vocals sound like they were influenced by Native American chants. But I agree with your general point – he was one of the more original musicians out there (and when I say “out there”, I mean it). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/10 "2012-04-16T16:26:08Z")
I went with both because I think both men were brilliant creators. Zappa was more self-controlled and as a result was more consistently good. Van Vliet would reach further and, as a result, had a lot more failures than Zappa did. ---
**Author:** ![charmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@charmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/charmstr)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/11 "2012-04-16T16:56:44Z")
Neither. Based on his first couple albums, I had a feeling that Zappa might eventually have become musically important, but he continuously proved me wrong for the rest of his career. The only thing\* I give him credit for is telling Lowell George he should start his own band. At least Zappa was detestable. About the only thing I’ve ever had to say about Beefheart was, “Could you put something else on? That’s awful.” - Well maybe not the _only_ thing. I was always fond of Wild Man Fisher (Fischer?). My friends and I used to stomp around the neighborhood singing “Merry-Go-Round” at the top of our lungs. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/12 "2012-04-16T17:08:20Z")
Well, I voted for both. But remember - ‘Most people wouldn’t know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass’ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/13 "2012-04-17T15:55:02Z")
Captain Beefheart for his lyrical and vocal innovations and Zappa for his musical greatness. I find Zappa’s lyrics generally annoying in a self important pretentious nerd kind of way. I like it when he doesn’t sing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-beefheart-or-frank-zappa/618921/14 "2012-04-17T22:02:29Z")
I just voted for the one I’d heard of.