# Captain of USN Aircraft carrier begs for help as COVID19 ravages ships company. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 31, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738 "2020-03-31T13:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/101 "2020-04-06T20:11:20Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The very fact that the commander of an Aircraft Carrier took it upon himself to do the right thing is what makes me believe that Trump won’t change the culture of the military in a meaningful way. Carrier Captains are pretty much fast track to Admiral. He knew there was a good chance he was throwing that away and even throwing away his current command. He did it. It doesn’t happen overnight; it happens gradually. He was fired in the end by someone over him who was “just following orders.” What will the next captain do, and the captain after that? Only so many people are going to fall on their own sword. I suppose the real danger is that morale and combat readiness gradually decline. The good ones leave, the idiots remain. Recruiting gets harder, it becomes just a job. Which is exactly what our adversaries like Russia and China want. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/102 "2020-04-06T20:25:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > […] I suppose the real danger is that morale and combat readiness gradually decline. The good ones leave, the idiots remain. Recruiting gets harder, it becomes just a job. […] This has been my exact thought from the beginning. Allowing the disease to run rampant through the crew not only risks the sailors, it also affects readiness. There’s no positive to leaving an infected crew on the carrier. Best case, I can see removing the crew, quarantining them (and testing), while simultaneously having the carrier disinfected. Rotate in the uninfected once the carrier is clear. The whole thing is FUBAR, but the captain did the right thing for his crew and the Navy. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/103 "2020-04-06T20:37:50Z")
> [@arles](#): > > Well that didn’t go down well. > > Let’s hope there is video of this. > > [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192369/Acting-navy-secretary-trashes-coronavirus-aircraft-carriers-fired-captain-naive-stupid.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192369/Acting-navy-secretary-trashes-coronavirus-aircraft-carriers-fired-captain-naive-stupid.html) Here’s a link to 15 minutes of recorded audio. Scroll ahead to the 1:43 (SECNAV’s somewhat ironic remark) to 1:58 (crew member’s reaction). Probably not in the same room as SECNAV, but probably reacting to the SECNAV talking over the ship’s announcing system (the 1MC) as a crew member records with their cell phone. At least that’d be my guess. https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?visual=false&url=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F792276541&show_artwork=true&maxheight=166 ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/104 "2020-04-06T20:54:12Z")
From the transcript of Modly’s remarks: > [@](#): > > most importantly, love the people you are ordered to lead. Make sure they eat before you do, care about their families as much as your own, be invested in their success far more than your own accomplishments. Nurture their careers more than you pursue your own advancement and **value their lives to the point that you will always consider their safety in every single decision you make** I’m going to just leave this here (bolding added) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/105 "2020-04-06T21:00:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This has been proven true in multiple psychological experiments and in real life: people obey authority. People want to keep their jobs. People want to keep their status. Don’t be so naive as to believe that Trump couldn’t ultimately find enough people who want to keep their jobs and want their jobs badly enough to follow through on patently illegal, unconstitutional, and immoral conduct. We already know that the Navy Sec. is following through on outrageously immoral orders. We also know this administration gives absolutely zero fucks about the law and the Constitution. > > So I’ll ask, what makes anyone - anyone - believe that the military would not follow through on martial law under the right (or wrong) circumstances? Most people operate under a fairly brutally simple approach of \*\*\*personal \*\*\*pros and cons: Does doing the right thing result in too high a price for \*\*\*me \*\*\*to pay? That’s why most people cave (totally understandably) under torture; the pain and ramifications of having one’s fingers sliced off one by one outweighs whatever abstract benefit there may be gained from concealing some classified info for a few minutes longer. Ditto for many Germans in the Holocaust, or people in the military who follow bad orders: They can rationalize it as “Well, if I disobey, I and my family will die, and they’ll just find someone else to do the exact same task without me, so what difference would my defiance make?” But as for the military enforcing martial law in the entire United States, I don’t think it would happen, because in that scenario the public backlash (and backlash within the military itself) would be so strong that that equation of pros-and-cons actually works \*\*\*against \*\*\*Trump. The military leaders would sense that they would suffer \*\*\*more \*\*\*by complying with such an order than by defying it. ---
**Author:** ![arles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71c47a/32.png) [@arles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arles)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/106 "2020-04-06T21:23:02Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Here’s a link to 15 minutes of recorded audio. Scroll ahead to the 1:43 (SECNAV’s somewhat ironic remark) to 1:58 (crew member’s reaction). Probably not in the same room as SECNAV, but probably reacting to the SECNAV talking over the ship’s announcing system (the 1MC) as a crew member records with their cell phone. At least that’d be my guess. > > [Stream Acting SECNAV Modley criticizing Capt. Crozier to sailors onboard USS Theodore Roosevelt by Paul Szoldra | Listen online for free on SoundCloud](https://soundcloud.com/paul-szoldra/acting-secnav-modley-criticizing-capt-crozier-to-sailors-onboard-uss-theodore-roosevelt) Thanks ! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/107 "2020-04-06T22:16:14Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > The whole thing is FUBAR, but the captain did the right thing for his crew and the Navy. He absolutely did - no question. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/108 "2020-04-06T22:21:11Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > For what it is worth, battleship has a meaning, if you want to be generic, use Combat ship or Combat Vessel. Or be specific and say Carrier. The New Jersey is a Battleship, The Roosevelt is a Carrier. Both are combat vessels. I thought the usual term was _warship_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/109 "2020-04-07T00:47:50Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > …Mosby said he knew the crew would probably be angry with him for the rest of their lives. Damned straight. What an ass Mosby is. What a monumental ass. Agreed, but his talking points were probably given him by the White House, or he just knew what the CINC wanted him to say. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/110 "2020-04-07T01:15:02Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I thought the usual term was _warship_. That is a good point, but not Battleship. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/111 "2020-04-07T01:22:28Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed, but his talking points were probably given him by the White House, or he just knew what the CINC wanted him to say. I’d guess he added the unfortunate language on his own. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/112 "2020-04-07T01:32:49Z")
No lack of unofficial response to the Acting SECNAV’s remarks: [Sailors reportedly 'livid' with acting Navy secretary after he blasts captain who expressed coronavirus concerns](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/06/sailors-reportedly-livid-over-bashing-of-captain/23971676/) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/113 "2020-04-07T01:37:01Z")
> [@arles](#): > > Well that didn’t go down well. > > Let’s hope there is video of this. > > [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192369/Acting-navy-secretary-trashes-coronavirus-aircraft-carriers-fired-captain-naive-stupid.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8192369/Acting-navy-secretary-trashes-coronavirus-aircraft-carriers-fired-captain-naive-stupid.html) Thank heavens. I’m sure that guy spoke for many. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/114 "2020-04-07T01:38:08Z")
Were there things the Navy could have done that it wasn’t doing? If so, for what reason(s) was it not doing those things? I agree with RickJay that the Navy had to fire Crozier; not firing him would have set the precedent that the media can be part of the chain of command which it can’t be if the military is to function properly. Also, Modly didn’t say that Crozier was too naive or stupid to command, he said that Crozier either knew or didn’t know it was going to be leaked. If he didn’t know, he’s too stupid and naive to command a ship. Modly doesn’t believe that Crozier is stupid or naive, he thinks he deliberately leaked the message. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/115 "2020-04-07T03:03:57Z")
I don’t disagree that some form of discipline would be likely for a commander deliberately exposing a crisis to the media, but there are other issues that require an investigation - like why the Navy would ever for a moment tolerate endangering an entire ship full of sailors and why there apparently wasn’t more done to satisfy the concerns of the Captain of the TR. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/116 "2020-04-07T03:23:46Z")
Modly has now apologized for (some of) his remarks: [Thomas Modly: Acting Navy secretary apologizes for calling ousted aircraft carrier captain 'stupid' in address to ship's crew | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/politics/uss-tr-crozier-modly/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/117 "2020-04-07T03:24:31Z")
[Moldy (sort of) apologies](https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/politics/uss-tr-crozier-modly/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/118 "2020-04-07T03:36:15Z")
I doubt his remarks were his idea. Trump’s words in Mobly’s body. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/119 "2020-04-07T03:47:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t disagree that some form of discipline would be likely for a commander deliberately exposing a crisis to the media, but there are other issues that require an investigation - like why the Navy would ever for a moment tolerate endangering an entire ship full of sailors and why there apparently wasn’t more done to satisfy the concerns of the Captain of the TR. I agree. The two questions in my comment were in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/120 "2020-04-07T09:33:47Z")
So… the Captain made the administration look bad, therefore he had to be punished and disgraced. Modly, a loyal foot soldier, sallied forth to do just that. But he was recorded, someone leaked that to the press, and he made the administration look bad. So now he will be punished and disgraced. A couple of take-away points: - the sailors know damn well what their captain did for them and are not listening to the narrative re-write - Crosier actually did do exactly what Modly said a good commander should do: put the welfare of the men under his command ahead of his career, thereby highlighting that Modly was attempting to disgrace him for doing his job properly - at least one, and probably several, completely ignored the “don’t go to the media” warning issued by Modly - they did this because they may be young but they’re not idiots, and they’re well aware the current administration is lying and incompetent and might well have left the _Theodore Roosevelt_ at sea and the problem on board hidden lest the truth made the administration “look bad”, even if that cost lives. The media may not be their friend, but at this point it’s less likely to leave them to die than an administration that tries to ignore and/or cover up problems. The only question remaining is how long it’s going to take for the administration to track down the sailors that released those recordings to the media for their dose of punishment and disgrace which, because they’re peons, is likely to be far more severe than what Modly will be subjected to. Really, Modly’s speech gave me flashbacks to when, in corporate America, I saw someone fired because someone else powerful simply didn’t like them and afterward tried to justify it by giving a company-wide address about what a terrible, incompetent person the fired employee was, even though everyone else knew damn well what had gone down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738.md?page=7)