# Captain of USN Aircraft carrier begs for help as COVID19 ravages ships company. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 31, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738 "2020-03-31T13:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/121 "2020-04-07T16:43:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > No lack of unofficial response to the Acting SECNAV’s remarks: [https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/06/sailors-reportedly-livid-over-bashing-of-captain/23971676/](https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/06/sailors-reportedly-livid-over-bashing-of-captain/23971676/) > [@](#): > > The acting secretary doubled down on that criticism in his remarks Monday to Crozier’s crew, telling them that if the captain hadn’t realized that emailing the memo to “over 20” people meant it was likely to go public, then Crozier was either “too naive or too stupid” to be left in command. The irony, it burns. I’m kind of surprised the sailors didn’t have a similar sendoff for ‘acting’ NavSec’s departure, only modified to “Fuck you Mod ley!” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/122 "2020-04-07T16:54:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… the Captain made the administration look bad, therefore he had to be punished and disgraced. > > Modly, a loyal foot soldier, sallied forth to do just that. But he was recorded, someone leaked that to the press, and he made the administration look bad. So now he will be punished and disgraced. Who would have thought that in speaking to four thousand young men and women, a few of them just might have been carrying some sort of device that could record sound and anonymously transmit that recording on the Internet. Modly could never have accounted for such a remarkable thing. World of wonders, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/123 "2020-04-07T16:58:46Z")
Incidentally, the text of his “apology” is, even by Trumpist standards, really something. > [@Dick Head Modly](#): > > Let me be clear, I do not think Captain Brett Crozier is naïve nor stupid. I think, and always believed him to be the opposite. We pick our carrier commanding officers with great care. Captain Crozier is smart and passionate. I believe, precisely because he is not naive and stupid, that he sent his alarming email with the intention of getting it into the public domain in an effort to draw public attention to the situation on his ship. I apologize for any confusion this choice of words may have caused." But… Modly specifically said Crozier was “too naive or too stupid.” There was no confusion whatsoever. Those were his precise words. Note also the “We pick our carrier commanding officers with great care.” Like Modly or Trump are seriously consulted on that. Very few people are qualified to command a carrier; only naval aviators of truly exceptional ability are considered, and Crozier was being groomed for the job years before Trump was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/124 "2020-04-07T19:33:21Z")
[Resigned](https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/modly-resign-crozier-esper-trump/index.html). Well, that didn’t take long. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/125 "2020-04-07T19:33:36Z")
Modly has resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/126 "2020-04-07T19:35:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Incidentally, the text of his “apology” is, even by Trumpist standards, really something. > > But… Modly specifically said Crozier was “too naive or too stupid.” There was no confusion whatsoever. Those were his precise words. As I recall, he said there were two possible explanations. 1) he was too naive or too stupid to know the letter would be leaked, or 2) he wanted and expected it to be leaked. He removed him from command because of the second one. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/127 "2020-04-07T19:42:37Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > [Resigned](https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/modly-resign-crozier-esper-trump/index.html). Well, that didn’t take long. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Modly has resigned. Good. I’m glad he did. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/128 "2020-04-07T19:53:01Z")
Would that CINC followed his lead. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/129 "2020-04-07T20:08:45Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Would that CINC followed his lead. We can dream. (Just in case anyone not know, CINC = Commander in Chief or President) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/130 "2020-04-07T20:36:18Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > [Resigned](https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/modly-resign-crozier-esper-trump/index.html). Well, that didn’t take long. Can’t make the boss look bad, otherwise ya gotta go… How many people have been fired/forced to resign today? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/131 "2020-04-07T22:53:34Z")
Captain Crozier demonstrated an incredible amount of personal integrity and loyalty towards his crew. I understand why he sent the letter in the fashion he did, and I am displeased as a taxpayer that the United States Navy has once again screwed things up beyond belief because of their toxic management culture. Crozier needed to relieved for cause, but there are a hell of a lot other officers who need to join him in retirement. Amazing how the Navy is now doing all of the things Crozier was requesting, nearer the pace Crozier requested them. AIUI, Modly’s intended audience for that speech wasn’t so much the crew of the _Theodore Roosevelt_, but rather every other ship in the Navy. Specifically that times are changing, and unfortunately the risk to life from COVID may be a lot less than risks they will be facing very soon, and that dissension within the chain of command will not be tolerated. Ironically, Crozier in the very first paragraphs of the letter was cognizant of that, stating that if this were wartime, then the TR would undertake its mission, COVID or no COVID. That may be one of the reasons for Modly’s pugnacious tone. The USN needs to figure an answer to their problem quickly. USS _Ronald Reagan_, tied up on selective availability in Japan, also has COVID cases. Unless another carrier comes back to the Pacific—maybe _Ford_ is finally ready—that’s it for carriers when you remove TR. See, [CV Locations](http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html) which is sort of kept updated. Lots of those ships either just got back from deployment, are in overhaul, or are otherwise unavailable. And if you take away the carriers, you take away a lot of the ability of the USN to project conventional force. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/132 "2020-04-07T23:39:39Z")
In case anyone wonders about Modly’s motive for resignation, > [@](#): > > Trump, who had also previously criticized Crozier told reporters that “I’m going to get involved and see exactly what’s going on there. Because I don’t want to destroy somebody for having a bad day.” [(cite)](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-defense/2020/04/07/trump-says-he-may-intervene-in-roosevelt-case-786676) Modly was indeed embarrassing and thus had to go. If smart, he’ll claim testing positive and retreat into self-isolation. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/133 "2020-04-07T23:54:52Z")
Modly lasted just barely over 12 Scaramuccis, and was also fired immediately after firing someone for Turmp. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/134 "2020-04-08T00:34:25Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > AIUI, Modly’s intended audience for that speech wasn’t so much the crew of the _Theodore Roosevelt_, but rather every other ship in the Navy. Specifically that times are changing, and unfortunately the risk to life from COVID may be a lot less than risks they will be facing very soon… Is there, uh, something going on you wanna tell us about? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/135 "2020-04-08T01:43:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Is there, uh, something going on you wanna tell us about? The US armed forces have been officially talking about a ‘pivot to the Pacific’ for quite some time. The current situation is concerning enough for the US to publicly state they are moving the carrier _Harry S Truman_ from the Arabian Sea and over watching Iran, to the Western Pacific. [Trump Pulls Out Aircraft Carrier From Middle East Amid Pandemic](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/02/coronavirus-us-military-trump-pentagon-removes-carrier-middle-east-pandemic-resource-fight/) Which is interesting, as other news aggregators are claiming it’s in the Eastern Atlantic, presumably heading to Norfolk to end a 5 month cruise. Ike has only been away for 3 months, and if a carrier to were go, it would probably be the one. In any event, if they pull both, this will mean the US will not have a carrier near Iran, which I gather hasn’t happened for some time. Unofficially, from service members I have talked to, there has been a heightened urgency within the last 3-5 years or so about the state of the US force overall, after near 20 years of low-intensity but constant war, and the according de-emphasis on training to fight a near-peer. As in, ‘how about we update those plans for getting our logistics and coordination in order, for a WestPac fight, as we might need them sooner than we would like.’ I mean, the F-35 will probably win it all for us, but what if it doesn’t? Moreover, there has been an increase in Chinese domestic news advocating that the United States is responsible for either the virus itself, or for the poor handling worldwide of the crisis. ['American coronavirus': China pushes propaganda casting doubt on virus origin | Coronavirus | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/conspiracy-theory-that-coronavirus-originated-in-us-gaining-traction-in-china) The impression I got was that the populace was getting whipped up with some decent anti-American animus. The Doper Mijin would be a great witness for if this is actually going on in China. Mainly, I have read of concern that foreign adventurism might be another way to distract Chinese domestic discontent, in the Spratleys, HK, Taiwan, or my personal dark horse choice, the Philippines. If the US thinks something like that may happen ‘soon’ (year or two at the outside), a speech to remind naval personnel that their mission may become more dangerous than it already is, and that they need to trust in the chain of command, might be one of the things Modly was trying to do with that speech. Or he was an over promoted asshole who got butthurt that Crozier ignored Modly’s admirals’ assurances that the situation was under control, in the process giving the Navy a giant black eye, and Modly was unprofessional enough to express that anger to Crozier’s subordinates. Stress does funny things to people. These are stressful times, and I thought the theory of his motivations that I’d heard was an interesting one. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/136 "2020-04-08T02:03:58Z")
You realize the TR could be back on the job pretty quick if needed, don’t you. Steaming from Guam to lets say Taiwan is only 1600 miles. The Captain was trying to save lives, but if things turned hot, then the TR would be ready to go pretty quick. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/137 "2020-04-08T15:06:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Is there, uh, something going on you wanna tell us about? Listening to the audio, I don’t think it’s quite as ominous as what Gray Ghost said may have sounded; It’s more that there is the possibility of conflict with China and Russia and sailors can’t be made to believe that if they disagree with what their superiors are doing, they can use the media to get their way, even if they’re right that their superiors are fucking up. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/138 "2020-04-08T16:00:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Is there, uh, something going on you wanna tell us about? Besides Gray Ghost’s observations there has been tension between the US and China about the [Taiwan Strait](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&channel=cus2&sxsrf=ALeKk03_DeUSAHyV1_AK5BiDwh-DywCDQQ%3A1586360823214&ei=9_GNXoDbDMbT-wSh47moDg&q=concerns+over+china+navy+in+taiwan+strait&oq=concern+over+chinese+navy+in&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMggIIRAWEB0QHjoECAAQRzoECCMQJzoHCAAQgwEQQzoCCAA6BAgAEEM6BQgAEJECOgUIABCDAToECAAQCjoGCAAQFhAeOgUIABDNAjoFCCEQoAE6BQghEKsCSjUIFxIxMGcxMjVnMTA2ZzEwOWcxMTlnMTAwZzEwMmcxMDNnMTg4ZzIwNmcxODBnMTU0ZzExM0odCBgSGTBnMWcxZzFnMWczZzFnMWcxZzFnNWc1ZzlQ0-khWNemImD1zCJoAHACeACAAc4CiAG9HZIBCDguMTYuMi4ymAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab) for about eighteen months now. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/139 "2020-04-08T16:08:55Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Besides Gray Ghost’s observations there has been tension between the US and China about the [Taiwan Strait](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&channel=cus2&sxsrf=ALeKk03_DeUSAHyV1_AK5BiDwh-DywCDQQ%3A1586360823214&ei=9_GNXoDbDMbT-wSh47moDg&q=concerns+over+china+navy+in+taiwan+strait&oq=concern+over+chinese+navy+in&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMggIIRAWEB0QHjoECAAQRzoECCMQJzoHCAAQgwEQQzoCCAA6BAgAEEM6BQgAEJECOgUIABCDAToECAAQCjoGCAAQFhAeOgUIABDNAjoFCCEQoAE6BQghEKsCSjUIFxIxMGcxMjVnMTA2ZzEwOWcxMTlnMTAwZzEwMmcxMDNnMTg4ZzIwNmcxODBnMTU0ZzExM0odCBgSGTBnMWcxZzFnMWczZzFnMWcxZzFnNWc1ZzlQ0-khWNemImD1zCJoAHACeACAAc4CiAG9HZIBCDguMTYuMi4ymAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab) for about eighteen months now. Nothing new. I’d say it’s been more like 18 years, but really that would be a gross understatement. > **[First Taiwan Strait Crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis)** > > Ceasefire; major escalation avoided > The First Taiwan Strait Crisis (also known as the Formosa Crisis, the 1954–1955 Taiwan Strait Crisis, the Offshore Islands Crisis, the Quemoy-Matsu Crisis, and the 1955 Taiwan Strait Crisis) was a brief armed conflict between the Communist People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Nationalist Republic of China (ROC) in Taiwan. The conflict focused on several groups of islands in the Taiwan Strait that were held by the ROC but were located only a few miles fr... ETA: My take? Modly was a availing himself of the usual rhetoric senior officers, flag officers, and civilian leaders tend to use in trying to convince sailors that even though what is going on is utterly ridiculous nonsense straight of something like _The Caine Mutiny_ or _Catch-22_, they should just shut up and color because “we all have to make sacrifices.” If you read much more into it than that, you probably haven’t spent much time in the military (because I’m sure the other armed services get it too). ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/140 "2020-04-08T17:10:46Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Nothing new. I’d say it’s been more like 18 years, but really that would be a gross understatement. > > [First Taiwan Strait Crisis - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis) > > ETA: My take? Modly was a availing himself of the usual rhetoric senior officers, flag officers, and civilian leaders tend to use in trying to convince sailors that even though what is going on is utterly ridiculous nonsense straight of something like _The Caine Mutiny_ or _Catch-22_, they should just shut up and color because “we all have to make sacrifices.” If you read much more into it than that, you probably haven’t spent much time in the military (because I’m sure the other armed services get it too). How do you think the Navy was could have done more in this situation and what caused those failures? Is it chiefly because of POTUS or are there other reasons? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738.md?page=8)