# Captain of USN Aircraft carrier begs for help as COVID19 ravages ships company. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 31, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738 "2020-03-31T13:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/161 "2020-04-12T22:30:54Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > We know, however, that the British tourists infected an electronics sales clerk; that happened. Why would the chances be so tiny that they managed to infect a second person in their travels around Da Nang, whether that second person was a US sailor or another sales clerk or waiter or random passer-by who remained asymptomatic or perhaps only mildly ill but still managed to infect the sailor? Da Nang is a city of 1 million and the Roosevelt has ~5000 sailors on board. It just seems somewhat fantastical that the 3 confirmed positive people in the entire city of Da Nang managed to get a sailor sick asymptomatically and then nobody else in the entire city of Da Nang. Someone getting sick from a city with no community spread is unlikely but whatever. A ship only finding the first sign of symptoms after 15 days at sea is unlikely but whatever. The combination of the two just multiplies the unlikeliness. It’s like watching a Rube Goldberg machine and assuming it formed naturally. The more steps along the way, the more implausible it becomes. On the contrary, if some adversarial force figured out a way to remotely infect a US aircraft carrier 10 days after it had left port, it’s also an unlikely scenario but it would also explain the same set of facts. Like I said from the start, I’m not discounting either scenario. Genetic sequencing of the virus both aboard the ship and of the British tourists would provide definitive proof either way. It’s possible to seed people with a version of the virus but it wouldn’t be possible to seed them with the specific genetic mutation that the tourists have. If it’s an exact match, then yeah, that was the transmission path. If it’s from a completely different line, then they need to figure out exactly where it came from. I don’t think we as civilians will ever know the truth about this. But the US military should definitely be looking at this closer and pin down like, exactly which bar did the British tourists meet one of the Roosevelt’s sailors and how did the transmission happen and does that sailor have antibodies despite never showing symptoms and the rest. If this does prove to be the transmission path, the US Navy also needs to do a post-mortem about how, given they knew the day they set sail that the tourist was tested positive, why did they not contact trace and preemptively quarantine all the sailors who could have plausibly been in contact with the tourist and how did it take them 15 days to realize community spread was happening on their ship? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/162 "2020-04-13T01:33:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Crozier may have done something wrong in the sense of not toeing the line the current administration wanted him to, but from an _ethical_ viewpoint I don’t see anything he did wrong. He put the health and welfare of the men under his command ahead of his own self and career - which is what a good leader is supposed to do. > [@Democratic leaders of the House Armed Services Committee](#): > > acknowledged that Crozier might have made missteps in his handling of the situation. “Captain Crozier was justifiably concerned about the health and safety of his crew, but he did not handle the immense pressure appropriately." My point is that ‘not handling the immense pressure appropriately’ is the kind of thing that happens when people have a headache, or a fever, or low blood-oxygen levels. I don’t have to agree with the Democrats to think that sickness does that to people. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/163 "2020-04-13T01:42:33Z")
I am not convinced that Crozier was sick at the time he made those decisions. What proof do YOU have that he was? Because I very much doubt you are his personal physician. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/164 "2020-04-13T04:02:44Z")
This recently updated New York Times [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/coronavirus-roosevelt-carrier-crozier.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) shows how the sailors might have got infected: > [@The New York Times](#): > > …On the fourth and final day in Da Nang, after dozens of sailors had spent at least one night in a hotel where two British nationals tested positive for the virus, the Roosevelt ordered some crew members back to the ship for fear they might be exposed. Those who had stayed at the hotel were immediately isolated. > > The Roosevelt went back out to sea, and its medical team watched closely for any sign of sickened sailors — a ticking clock during the 14-day period when symptoms would most likely appear. Over those same 14 days, aircraft flew on and off the ship, bringing in supplies from Japan and the Philippines. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/165 "2020-04-13T04:49:32Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Da Nang is a city of 1 million and the Roosevelt has ~5000 sailors on board. It just seems somewhat fantastical that the 3 confirmed positive people in the entire city of Da Nang managed to get a sailor sick asymptomatically and then nobody else in the entire city of Da Nang. The sailors and the British tourists were not just random people who were staying in a city of one million; at least some of the sailors were staying in the very same hotel as the Brits. The number of people in the hotel was certainly much less than a million, probably much less than 5,000, and it’s quite plausible they crossed paths in the lobby or the elevators or the restaurant. While the sailors were ordered back to the ship and quarantined when the news broke that the tourists had tested positive, I don’t see it as “fantastical” that a sailor might have managed to infect another crew member who was not quarantined, or perhaps the quarantine compliance was less than perfect. All it would take was one single unquarantined and asymptomatic carrier to spread the virus to other crew, and estimates of asymptomatic infection rates are all over the place, ranging from 10 to 80 percent. On the other hand, the Brits might have had nothing to do with the sailors, but I don’t see it as anything close to as unlikely as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/166 "2020-04-13T06:28:49Z")
> [@robby](#): > > This recently updated New York Times [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/coronavirus-roosevelt-carrier-crozier.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) shows how the sailors might have got infected: Ah ok. If the sailors were staying in the same hotel as the British tourists then I completely withdraw my speculation. The transmission path is 100% plausible then. I also wasn’t aware that people were constantly flying on and off the ship while at sea. That’s also another plausible transmission path. It would be interesting to find out how, despite them being aware of possible contact with a confirmed case, the quarantine wasn’t effective. Would be good learning for other situations where an effective quarantine needs to be set up. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/167 "2020-04-13T10:40:38Z")
Doing a truly effective quarantine can be surprisingly hard. Even for medical professionals. I very much doubt an aircraft carrier normally has an infectious disease specialist on board. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/168 "2020-04-13T14:41:53Z")
IMO this justifies the actions of Captain Crozier: [Navy reports first coronavirus death from Roosevelt crew](https://apnews.com/c5a9bb159bbf34532783c9dd55ce0c89). > [@](#): > > A member of the crew of the coronavirus-infected USS Theodore Roosevelt warship died Monday of complications related to the disease, the Navy said, adding to setbacks for the sidelined aircraft carrier. > > The sailor, whose name and other identifying information were not publicly released pending notification of relatives, had tested positive for coronavirus on March 30 and was taken off the ship and placed in “isolation housing” along with four other sailors at the U.S. Navy base on Guam. On April 9 he was found unresponsive during a medical check and was moved to a local hospital’s intensive care unit. The article also notes: > [@](#): > > As of Sunday, 585 members of the Roosevelt crew had tested positive for coronavirus. Nearly 4,000 crew members had been moved ashore. This is not a hoax and not a minor illness; it is serious. Captain Crozier understood that and acted in the interest of his crew. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/169 "2020-04-13T16:06:24Z")
I’m wondering what the chances are that everyone on that ship was exposed to the virus. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/170 "2020-04-13T20:31:03Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > I’m wondering what the chances are that everyone on that ship was exposed to the virus. Probably around a 99.999 percent chance. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/171 "2020-04-13T20:50:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I am not convinced that Crozier was sick at the time he made those decisions. What proof do YOU have that he was? Because I very much doubt you are his personal physician. I’m not convinced that Crozier was well at the time he made those decisions. What proof do YOU have that he was? Because I very much doubt that you are his personal physician. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/172 "2020-04-13T22:28:59Z")
I find it curious that you want to attribute his actions to illness rather than to his own free will, sense of duty, perspective on the problem, ethics, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/173 "2020-04-16T00:37:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I find it curious that you want to attribute his actions to illness rather than to his own free will, sense of duty, perspective on the problem, ethics, etc. I find it curious that 1. You chose to reword “make it easy for me to believe” as "want to attribute " 2. That you choose to reject the judgement of the house Democrats. 3. That you refuse to consider the possibility that the actions were influenced by sickness, without any supporting evidence at all. 4. Think that aircraft carrier captains are the kind of people who might reasonably be expected to make career-ending errors of judgement. All together, I find what you’ve written rather odd. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/174 "2020-04-16T00:53:55Z")
Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/navy-may-reinstate-fired-captain-to-command-of-roosevelt/ar-BB12GB7h](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/navy-may-reinstate-fired-captain-to-command-of-roosevelt/ar-BB12GB7h) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — The Navy is looking into whether it can reinstate Capt. Brett E. Crozier, who was removed from command of the carrier Theodore Roosevelt after he pleaded for more help fighting a novel coronavirus outbreak aboard his ship, Defense Department officials said on Wednesday. Hahahaha ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/175 "2020-04-16T10:02:49Z")
Here is an example of what can happen elsewhere. > **[Coronavirus: 668 infected on French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52308073)** > > The flagship Charles de Gaulle is in quarantine in Toulon, with a third of its 2,000 crew infected. Given that a lot of results have yet to be returned it is likely that those numbers will turn out to be higher. It does offer the opportunity of useful data for the age range of sailors which the USN would do well to note. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/176 "2020-04-16T10:14:56Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > 1. Think that aircraft carrier captains are the kind of people who might reasonably be expected to make career-ending errors of judgement. See, that’s the difference between you and me. You view what he did as an error, a mistake, a flaw. I am willing to consider that he valued the safety and lives of his men (and women) above that of a career and made a conscious decision to get help for them even at cost to himself. You are correct - this is not normally something carrier captains do. But then, we don’t usually have a new, epidemic disease breaking out on board a ship like that either. These are not normal times. Saving lives should not be seen as an “error”. Usually it’s considered a laudable and selfless act. Why do you see it as a mistake in this case? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/177 "2020-04-16T10:17:24Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Here is an example of what can happen elsewhere. > > [Coronavirus: 668 infected on French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52308073) I noted this bit in the article: > [@](#): > > The figure for those infected is likely to rise, as 30% of the test results are not yet in. The navy is investigating how so many sailors caught the virus. My first guess would be “dense, crowded, on-board living conditions”. You know, conditions that have been present for thousands of years on board Navy ships. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/178 "2020-04-16T10:33:06Z")
And the traditional treatment for plague ships is to anchor them offshore and wait to see who lives and who dies. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/179 "2020-04-18T23:14:15Z")
It looks like my original suspicions may have been correct and [USS Theodore Roosevelt Outbreak Is Linked to Flight Crews, Not Vietnam Visit](https://www.wsj.com/articles/uss-theodore-roosevelt-outbreak-is-linked-to-flight-crews-not-vietnam-visit-11586981891) > [@](#): > > However, no crew member among the nearly 5,000 aboard the carrier appeared to contract the virus until March 24 or March 25, military officials said, more than two weeks after the Da Nang visit. Given the incubation periods for Covid-19, the two-week time span all but eliminates the port visit as a source of what has become the U.S. military’s largest outbreak of stricken service members, officials said. > > Instead, the timing points to a more likely source in the series of flights conducted by the carrier air wing, several officials said, after cargo flights, known as carrier on-board delivery, or COD, between the vessel and Vietnam, Japan and the Philippines, officials said. > > The first cases of coronavirus on board the Roosevelt were among members of the carrier’s air wing, officials said. Still, the article cautions > [@](#): > > As the Navy investigates the outbreak of the coronavirus, officials say they may never learn its true origins. “We just don’t know,” one official said. Kind of crazy that they couldn’t keep an infection off the ship while at sea with only a limited number of ingress and egress points. It sounds like one of the literally easiest control points to manage, especially with everyone on board so freaked out after a close encounter from on shore. ---
**Author:** ![pirviii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pirviii/32/3233_2.png) [@pirviii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pirviii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738/180 "2020-04-19T02:16:32Z")
My guess is that the first infected were asymptomatic and were spreading the virus around for weeks before the first symptoms appeared. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-of-usn-aircraft-carrier-begs-for-help-as-covid19-ravages-ships-company/850738.md?page=10)