# Captain Pike? (Star Trek) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2001, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360 "2001-11-26T20:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/21 "2001-11-27T07:30:18Z")
> [@](#): > > And Captain Christopher Pike went on to a rewarding career writig mstery novels. > > At least that’s what I always think when I’m in the bookstore. Aren’t you thinking of Stephen Collins? Jeffrey Hunter, who played Pike, died in 1969 from a brain hemorrhage. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/22 "2001-11-27T08:19:48Z")
**Sam** , look [here.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Pike%2C%20Christopher/002-0358149-0322467) ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/23 "2001-11-27T16:26:31Z")
As noted, Captain Pike (Jeffrey Hunter) was in the original pilot episode, **The Cage** , which is what **Jet Jaguar** saw on TV. The show was not picked up, but Roddenberry was allowed to do a second, more action-oriented pilot ( **Where No Man Has Gone Before** ) after changing almost all of the cast. Hunter was replaced with William Shatner as Captain Kirk. The network people also told Roddenberry to get rid of the characters they considered unbelievable – the alien (Spock) and the female First Officer (Number One, played by Majel Barrett). Roddenberry realized he could fight to save one but not both. Having an alien working in harmony with humans was an important part of the message he wanted the show to send, so Number One had to go. However, as a consolation prize, he married the actress. 😉 (The network was later concerned about the lack of religion on the ship. They told Roddenberry to add a chapel, and he did – Nurse Christine Chapel, played by Majel Roddenberry in a platinum-blonde wig.) The second pilot, **Where No Man Has Gone Before** , aired as part of the original series broadcast. **The Cage** never did, although as noted above, it was cut with new footage to become the two-part **The Menagerie** , and as such was established as something that happened 13 years prior. As **jab1** noted, when the series was released on VHS in the 80’s, Paramount decided to release **The Cage** as Episode 1 of the set, but couldn’t find the color footage. Therefore they recut the color from the scenes included in **The Menagerie** with the B&W archive footage they did have of the few scenes that didn’t make it into the that episode. Several years later, color footage of those extra scenes was discoverd and **The Cage** was rereleased in full color as Episode #99 of the VHS set. (Previously the last episode was **Turnabout Intruder** , #79.) Around this time (1989, IIRC), **The Cage** was broadcast (in color) for the first time on television as well. Nowadays it is included in the syndication run of episodes, which explains why **Jet Jaguar** saw it on TV. –Cliffy P.S. Captain April is never mentioned in any live-action show. He did make an appearance in The Animated Series (aka “TAS” – actually titled “The Animated Adventures of Gene Roddenberry’s Star Trek”; that’s a mouthful, huh?). It’s an open question whether the cartoon is canon or not. I think it should be, and AFAIK it hasn’t been directly contradicted to any degree greater than early TOS episodes have been. OTOH, it hasn’t been officially adopted, either. (Although some of Spock’s comments in the TNG epsiode **Reunification, Part II** , could be a discussion of the events of the TAS episode **Yesteryear**.) With a few exceptions, TAS is not a part of the Chronology, which is a semi-official source. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/24 "2001-11-27T17:01:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*And Captain Christopher Pike went on to a rewarding career writig mstery novels. > \*\* Actually, he founded a popular religious movement. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/25 "2001-11-27T19:13:20Z")
Thanks to all of you for explaining to me why I saw a black-and-white version. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/26 "2001-11-27T19:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\* black-and-white version. \*\* All Chris Pike’s words are in red. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/27 "2001-11-27T19:50:07Z")
On the one hand, it ought to be canon because it has Robert April and his wife. OTOH, it shouldn’t be canon because it has a REALLY stupid premise: The _Enterprise_ visits a parallel universe where time runs in reverse. Apparently, in this universe, people rise from their graves with all the knowledge they’ll ever have and eventually climb back into their mothers’ wombs at the “end” of their lives, and they all know EXACTLY how long they’ll live… Writer Alan Dean Foster adapted all of the animated episodes into short stories and novels (the “Log Series”). “Counter-Clock” was the last in the series, and Foster had such problems with the premise, he decided it was really an illusion by superior aliens trying to teach the _Enterprise_ crew and some Klingons how to be more skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Sea\_Sorbust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Sea\_Sorbust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sea_Sorbust)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/28 "2001-11-27T20:07:47Z")
I confess that my knowledge of the technical details of Star Trek is near-nil. What I **do** know, however, is that the [practical] “Lessons Learned” (as the U.S. military calls them) from the two-part episode which it seems was called \*\*The Menagerie \*\*might well be the most important from all the various Star Trek’s. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/29 "2001-11-27T20:43:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sea Sorbust \* > \*\*“Lessons Learned” \*\* Never piss off a species that is telepathic _and_ smarter than you? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/30 "2001-11-27T21:03:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > > \*\* black-and-white version. \*\* > > All Chris Pike’s words are in red. \*\* for those of you not in the loop, Jeffrey Hunter was Jesus in “King of Kings” (1961) > [@](#): > > “Lessons Learned” Don’t trust alien women with big heads and dubbed as men? ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/31 "2001-11-27T23:22:04Z")
Now, what I’ve always heard (and I hang out with only the finest geeks!) is that The Animated Series absolutely is **not** canonical, no way, no how, don’t even bring it up, you big loser you. I’ve never been entirely clear on why this should be so–the closest I’ve ever gotten to an answer is “because Roddenberry said so.” But then, Roddenberry said a lot of things I don’t agree with. As for poor old Robert April, my understanding is that this was the name of the captain in Roddenberry’s earliest drafts of the show. The name of the captain, evidently, was debated as though it were a matter of life and death. They changed it to Pike for the first pilot, of course, and then to Kirk for the second pilot. Good thing, too. If they’d stuck with Pike for William Shatner’s character, they couldn’t have re-used that “Cage” footage. Anywho, at some point somebody started referring to April as “the first captain of the Enterprise, before Pike.” Who and when, I don’t know. I have absolutely no problem with it, but there isn’t a whole lot of on-screen support. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/32 "2001-11-28T00:30:06Z")
There is a pic of Captain April in I believe the Star Trek Encyclopedia which is Roddenberry in costume. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/33 "2001-11-28T01:07:13Z")
> [@](#): > > On the one hand, it ought to be canon because it has Robert April and his wife. OTOH, it shouldn’t be canon because it has a REALLY stupid premise: The Enterprise visits a parallel universe where time runs in reverse. Wait. We’re disqualifying episodes on the basis of having a stupid premise? Two words: SPOCK’S BRAIN. Paramount made it, Paramount aired it, Paramount sold it in syndication and Paramount sells/sold it for retail sale. It’s canon. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/34 "2001-11-28T15:41:53Z")
I certainly agree with your thinking, **Otto** , but until something onscreen establishes it more fully we can’t assume. I’m hoping that in the upcoming TNG movie Picard can meet some scientist – a Dr. Arex – who mentions that his grandfather served on Kirk’s ship of the same name. The picture of Roddenberry as April is in the second edition of the Chronology. (It might also be in the first edition, which I don’t have.) The Chronology is semi-official; it was originally written as a timeline for writers so they wouldn’t trip themselves up in continuity, and it’s very clear about the fact that it makes up stuff to fill holes. But the policy is that anytime a writer has a good idea that conflicts with the Chronology’s guesses, he should go with it. (Heck, the whole current series is an example of this.) The Chronology’s position on TAS, BTW, is that it’s up to the individual viewer to decide if it should be canon or not. However, as I noted above, animated episodes are not included in the Chronology with the exception of some of the episode **Yesteryear** and the use of April’s name (which, as **MrAtoz** noted, has other sources, too). I too have heard that the reason TAS is often considered non-canonical is because Roddenberry said so; it certainly is less thematically sophisticated than either TOS or TNG, so I can imagine that when he had the opportunity to continue Star Trek in the late 80’s, Roddenberry wanted to forget the cartoon, which was plainly designed for a different audience. OTOH, Uhura got to command the ship in the cartoon, so it has that going for it. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/35 "2001-11-28T15:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\* > Wait. We’re disqualifying episodes on the basis of having a stupid premise? Two words: SPOCK’S BRAIN. > \*\* One word: Voyager! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/36 "2001-11-28T16:08:16Z")
MrAtoz wrote: > [@](#): > > Now, what I’ve always heard (and I hang out with only the finest geeks!) is that The Animated Series absolutely is **not** canonical, no way, no how, don’t even bring it up, you big loser you. I’ve never been entirely clear on why this should be so–the closest I’ve ever gotten to an answer is “because Roddenberry said so.” But then, Roddenberry said a lot of things I don’t agree with. The Animated Series also featured the existence of the Kzinti, the Stasis Box, and that wierd glow around crewmembers’ bodies while on Away Missions that acts like a spacesuit. Would **you** want these to be Canon? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/37 "2001-11-28T16:19:08Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Otto \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Paramount made it, Paramount aired it, Paramount sold it in syndication and Paramount sells/sold it for retail sale. It’s canon. \*\* I agree, but Paramount doesn’t. Ferexample: When Peter David was writing a tremendously great selling Star Trek comic for D.C. he had Arex and M’ress as characters. When Paramount eventually found out, they had hysterics, demanding that he pull the characters from the book at once and never mention them again. It directly led to David leaving the book, and drifting away from the Star Trek universe. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/38 "2001-11-28T16:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*and that wierd glow around crewmembers’ bodies while on Away Missions that acts like a spacesuit. Would **you** want these to be Canon? \*\* Somewhere in one of the comics or novels, Scotty and…um…Checkov? are drinking, and Checkov starts giggling. Scotty asks why and Checkov says something like “\< snicker \> Rembember those idiotic experimental force-field space-suits that they made us test?” Scotty rolls his eyes and says “Yeah, no way to get rid of the heat, so you’d cook, no protection from phasers since they’re transparent, and any sort of electromagnetic interference, say…sunspots, for example and poof you’re breathing vaccuum.” What I want to know is: Outside of the comics, have the Organians ever shown up or even been mentioned again? (I didn’t like TNG, so I don’t know if they were dealt with). Fenris ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/39 "2001-11-28T16:34:30Z")
\*True Story: We were driving south through Providence, RI on I-95 when I saw a big yellow sign that read No Exit 5. \* I don’t know about that, but I **do** know there is **no** rule six! RR ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360/40 "2001-11-28T16:54:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > **What I want to know is: Outside of the comics, have the Organians ever shown up or even been mentioned again? (I didn’t like TNG, so I don’t know if they were dealt with).** I assume you mean post-TOS? (There was a later TOS episode – it may even have been **The Trouble With Tribbles** – in which a Klingon mentioned “The Organian Peace Treaty.”) I don’t recall anything else from any series. –Cliffy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/captain-pike-star-trek/95360.md?page=3)