# Capture bin Laden?? Let's not. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187 "2001-09-17T16:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/1 "2001-09-17T16:30:58Z")
Can you imagine the trial??? This guy has at least 10 times the money that OJ had. And we were accusing OJ directly of a crime. This would be a nightmare of a trial. And it would go on forever. And he would get off. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/2 "2001-09-17T16:43:16Z")
First off, this is extremely hypothetical. bin Laden will commit suicide if capture is imminent; I think the best predictor we have for his behavior is what charismatic cult leaders do. Anyway, OJ got off because he had sympathetic jurors in a jury trail. Defense lawyers go with juries when they don’t have a good defense, but can appeal emotionally to people susceptible to emotional appeals. bin Laden’s lawyer couldn’t find 12 sympathetic jurors. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/3 "2001-09-17T17:07:23Z")
We’re in somewhat of a no-win situation with him. If we kill him or sentence him to death, he will become a martyr. True, he’ll be a dead martyr, but killin gthe leader usually stirs up the supporters even more. If we imprison him, we’ll have planes being blown up every week in demand of his release. I really don’t know what we can do, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/4 "2001-09-17T18:38:30Z")
It was suggested in another thread that he be tried by the Saudis if he can be definitively linked to the bombing that occured there. If (when) he’s found guilty, their brand of punishment would be particularly fitting. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/5 "2001-09-17T18:47:23Z")
It’s been mentioned all over these boards about bin Laden being taken and tried and sentenced. Why the heck should this guy get all the benefits of the United State’s Constitution? Why should this mass murderer be given “due process” or “a right to a jury trial?” These rights were created and fought for by the people of the country he is seeking to destroy? I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think we have to bring him to court and prove he is guilty. To give this waste of human flesh any of the rights is an affront to the people he’s killed and all the people who have died defending the constitution. He has declared war against America. It is war he should expect. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/6 "2001-09-17T18:53:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > \*\*Why the heck should this guy get all the benefits of the United State’s Constitution? Why should this mass murderer be given “due process” or “a right to a jury trial?” These rights were created and fought for by the people of the country he is seeking to destroy? \*\* Because those rights were created because they are _better_ than any other system. We as a people are better than anything he can imagine, and far better than anything he can destroy. We are great due to a great system. By saying that we shouldn’t bring him to trial, you are saying that the system of justice we have in place is not good enough for this act. I think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/7 "2001-09-17T19:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > By saying that we shouldn’t bring him to trial, you are saying that the system of justice we have in place is not good enough for this act. Not even close. Osana Bin Laden isn’t nearly good enough for the system. Do we try rabid dogs before we shoot them in the street? (O.K. the rhetoric of that previous statement is nearly drowning, but it had to be said.) The United States of America, it’s constitution, and it’s criminal justice system are some of the most incredible institutions ever created. There is no reason a non-citizen, who hates all three of the above, and has been involved in a war against America should avail himself to these great institutions. In a war, especially the kind of war this one against terrorism is going to be, there is no reason, or time, to go through the requirements of our system. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/8 "2001-09-17T19:18:07Z")
Just thinking…wouldn’t it suck to be his court-appointed defense attorney? ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/9 "2001-09-17T20:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > \*\*It’s been mentioned all over these boards about bin Laden being taken and tried and sentenced. > Why the heck should this guy get all the benefits of the United State’s Constitution? Why should this mass murderer be given “due process” or “a right to a jury trial?” These rights were created and fought for by the people of the country he is seeking to destroy? I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think we have to bring him to court and prove he is guilty. To give this waste of human flesh any of the rights is an affront to the people he’s killed and all the people who have died defending the constitution. > > He has declared war against America. It is war he should expect. \*\* I’m not sure what the legal protocol is for non-citizens, but if it calls for a normal US trial, he should be given one. For several reasons: a) He hasn’t been proven guilty yet. b) If we execute or imprision without adhering to the constitution it will set a very dangerous precedent. c) He’ll be a martyr d) There’s a good chance he’ll be released e) Future generations will ignore the crimes he’s done and concentrate on his being punished without trial f) Most Importantly: IF WE PUNISH WITHOUT TRIAL, HES DESTROYED THE CONSTITUTION AND ACCOMPLISHED HIS GOAL. So, if we try him in the US, it is essential that we do it 100% by the book. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/10 "2001-09-17T20:52:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rysdad \* > Just thinking…wouldn’t it suck to be his court-appointed defense attorney? I seem to recall at least one court-appointed defense attorney refusing to defend Timothy McVeigh. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/11 "2001-09-17T21:25:40Z")
Multimillionaires are not entitled to, nor would they normally wish for, court appointed attornies. That might have been me that suggested the Saudi solution, and at the risk of seconding my own motion I still think its a possibility. There has been AFAIK no solution to the bombing of the US military barracks in al Khobar, so the Saudis could claim jurisdiction, maybe with help from our forensics folks. He is probably anyway guilty of treason from a Saudi perpsective. Punishment from an Islamic court would not likely make him a martyr. And Saudi justice is meted out swiftly. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/12 "2001-09-17T21:41:41Z")
Multimillionaires don’t usually have court-appointed attorneys, but I’m pretty sure all his assets would be frozen once they found where they were. In other words, every time he tried to pay his money would be seized. ---
**Author:** ![TheThill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheThill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheThill)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/13 "2001-09-17T22:10:13Z")
The problem is even greater than that since there must have been countless others involved all around the world (assuming it was in fact him behind this – there are unfortunately thousands of other terrorists out there). ---
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/14 "2001-09-18T00:10:58Z")
Since the crimes for which he is being sought were mainly committed either on US soil or against US targets I think he will be brought to America for trial. Probably in either NY or in Washington DC. I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that neither of these places has the death penalty so he will be sent to prison. This all assumes he is caught alive. I dont think he will commit suicide because this is a great crime in Islam. Suicide bombers are a different case because they are on “enemy” territory attacking the “enemy”. They are “martyrs” not “suicides”. Islam makes a distinction between the two. In Islam, you are not allowed to commit suicide just to save your own skin from trial. You can only commit suicide if it is part of an attack on the “enemy”. I honestly don’t think he would commit suicide - if he did he wouldn’t be able to go to Heaven. There is, of course, a high likelihood that he may killed during the military action involved in going to fetch him. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/15 "2001-09-18T03:25:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xanakis \* > \*\*I dont think he will commit suicide because this is a great crime in Islam…In Islam, you are not allowed to commit suicide just to save your own skin from trial. You can only commit suicide if it is part of an attack on the “enemy”. > > I honestly don’t think he would commit suicide - if he did he wouldn’t be able to go to Heaven. \*\* If the man is good at anything, it is manipulating the Qur’-an to say what he wants, and rationalizing his actions to fit what’s convenient. He’ll find a way around that…he’ll strap himself to a bomb so that moving him blows him up, or something. He’ll make it technically not a suicide, but ensure he doesn’t have to face anybody about his actions. ---
**Author:** ![buddy1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy1)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/16 "2001-09-18T12:32:46Z")
It is indeed true, that the capture of Bin Laden would be as difficult as the war against him. What we have to do, is get a rival faction in Afghanistan to kill him for us. This should be done by offering a substantial reward. What about the followers of this Massood guy? I’m sure they are pretty sore about the death of their leader; let’s cultivate them-and let themdo the killing for us. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/17 "2001-09-18T15:23:42Z")
You can be sure the CIA or some government agency is working with the Northern Alliance now. But they’re too weak to do it on their own. And if we arm them too well, we risk the Taliban getting their hands on our own arms. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/18 "2001-09-18T18:47:42Z")
> [@](#): > > bin Laden will commit suicide if capture is imminent; I > think the best predictor we have for his behavior is what > **charismatic cult leaders** do. Why the characterization as cult leader? I’m not aware of any behavior on his part that would lead me to believe he leads a cult. I’ve seen ample behavior that would lead me to believe he’s a highly effective, rational leader with a well-thought out agenda - in other words, extremely dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/19 "2001-09-18T19:18:25Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by MemoryLeak \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Why the characterization as cult leader? I’m not aware of any behavior on his part that would lead me to believe he leads a cult. I’ve seen ample behavior that would lead me to believe he’s a highly effective, rational leader with a well-thought out agenda - in other words, extremely dangerous. \*\* I characterize him as a cult leader because his followers have a fanatical level of devotion - he has apparently gotten many of them to execute suicide missions. He keeps his followers misinformed about the United States and limits communication outside of his camp. Here’s an interview with him: [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html) Also, on one of the many threads (can’t find it right now) here, someone posted a cite wherein adolescents in his camp have no knowledge of the US as anything but an evil thief, and they refused to believe the Qur’-an had ever been translated into English. I agree he’s effective. I disagree he’s rational. I agree he has a well-thought out agenda. I agree he’s extremely dangerous. None of those things are _not_ associated with cult leaders. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187/20 "2001-09-18T20:17:34Z")
bup, Fair enough. I think it’s possible to make an argument that his organization is a cult based on a standard dictionary definition. But I think it’s possible to make that argument for **any** religion or belief system. I guess I’m uncomfortable characterizing his organization as a cult because it almost seems dismissive of the enormity of the threat it poses. His support in the region is probably in the millions, maybe tens of millions. I think once you start talking about those kinds of numbers, you’re beyond the ‘Jim Jones’ cult stage. If I had to pick something as a comparison, I’d think along the lines of Hitler. This guy started with a small group of followers and a large disaffected population. I think Mao Ze-Dung may even fall in this category. These guys changed the face of the world. Regards [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/capture-bin-laden-lets-not/82187.md?page=2)