# Car batteries 50 miles as opposed to 300 miles range **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 30, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627 "2022-08-30T21:16:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/1 "2022-08-30T21:16:55Z")
What would be the difference in batteries like this? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/2 "2022-08-30T21:20:23Z")
Are you asking why some cars have a 50 mile range vs. 300 mile range on electric? It is all about battery capacity. A Tesla has a huge amount of high end batteries. A Plug-In Prius, not so much. The Nissan Leaf has a fairly small amount of battery capacity compared to a Tesla or a Chevy Volt. The Tesla 3: [Tesla Model 3 High Voltage Components Diagram | Car Construction](https://www.newkidscar.com/electrical-diagram/tesla-model-3-high-voltage-components-diagram/) [![](https://www.newkidscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/tesla-model3-diagram.jpg) ](https://www.newkidscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/tesla-model3-diagram.jpg) The Prius: [![](https://www.myprius.co.za/New%20Picture.jpg) ](https://www.myprius.co.za/New%20Picture.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/3 "2022-08-30T21:29:18Z")
Not exactly sure what you mean since you seem to have left out a few key words. But I’m going to assume you mean why did the first electric cars have only a small range and newer EVs have much longer range. Is that correct? Battery technology has vastly improved, and car makers have added more of them to the car. One of the first modern EVs, GM’s EV1, used lead acid batteries. They then switched to nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH) batteries which pretty much doubled the range. Modern Lithium-ion batteries pack even more power into a smaller package meaning less weight, longer range, and better acceleration. Modern EVs have learned a lot from previous generations and are in a state of steady improvement. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/4 "2022-08-30T21:43:01Z")
I > [@Telemark](#): > > Not exactly sure what you mean since you seem to have left out a few key words. But I’m going to assume you mean why did the first electric cars have only a small range and newer EVs have much longer range. Is that correct? What I was really wondering about is, using the latest battery technology and a customer did not need more than 50 miles range what would the physical and cost differences in the battery be? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/5 "2022-08-30T21:52:31Z")
There are plug-in hybrids, that sounds more like what you’re looking for. Figure $5000 to $10000 cheaper. Get an old Nissan Leaf and update the batteries for a 50 mile range and maybe the whole thing could be as low as $20,000. But I don’t believe anyone is mass producing an electric only new car with a 50 mile range currently. So hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/6 "2022-08-30T21:52:38Z")
I guess I will put this question in the same thread as it is related. Let’s say we built cars with a dry weight of 500 or maybe 600# with a loaded weight not to exceed 1200#. Maximum speed was say 35 mph but special lanes for these cars were set at 25 mph. I would think this could be feasible and very tolerable for most local driving. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/7 "2022-08-30T21:54:11Z")
Those weights are very low. Keep in mind these numbers: Teslas weigh **2,723 lbs to 5,390 lbs** Even a Smart car weighs around **1,550 pounds** ---
**Author:** ![Tilt-A-Whirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@Tilt-A-Whirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tilt-A-Whirl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/8 "2022-08-30T22:01:12Z")
Honey Badger, what you’re describing already exists! They’re called NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle). Many municipalities have laws and accommodations for them. > **[Neighborhood Electric Vehicle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle)** > > A Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV) is a U.S. category for battery electric vehicles that are usually built to have a top speed of 25 miles per hour (40 km/h), and have a maximum loaded weight of 3,000 lb (1,400 kg). Depending on the particular laws of the state, they are legally limited to roads with posted speed limits of 35 miles per hour (56 km/h) or less (in some states 45mph or less). NEVs fall under the United States Department of Transportation classification for low-speed vehicles.\[ A ... ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/9 "2022-08-30T22:18:13Z")
The problem is that they’re not particularly cheap. Where they exist, they’re a 3rd vehicle for wealthy people to tool around in when the weather’s nice, or a vehicle to keep at a lake or beach house for traveling the grounds. They can’t compete on price with, say, a used Nissan Versa, while only providing a fraction of the utility. It would be nice if vehicles like this could actually _replace_ a gas car every once in a while instead of just existing alongside one, but communities would have to be built around them and gas would have to be much more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/10 "2022-08-30T22:19:16Z")
> [@Tilt-A-Whirl](#): > > Honey Badger, what you’re describing already exists! They’re called NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle). Many municipalities have laws and accommodations for them I figured they did exist; I just don’t hear much about them. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/11 "2022-08-30T22:41:55Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > What I was really wondering about is, using the latest battery technology and a customer did not need more than 50 miles range what would the physical and cost differences in the battery be? Sorry to fight the hypothetical, but that’s really swimming against the tide. [Most studies cite “range anxiety” as the top reason buyers avoid electric cars, with too few charging stations right behind.](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/5-common-objections-to-buying-an-electric-car-debunked) That’s why Tesla always touts its models’ range. Let’s turn the question around. How cheap would a gasoline powered car have to be for people to want it, if it only came with a four-gallon tank because most trips are less than 50 miles. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/12 "2022-08-30T22:58:09Z")
There is a huge difference, and the gasoline powered car would not be a good comparison. An electric vehicle can be plugged in and charged at many of the destinations while a gasoline vehicle requires going to a service station. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/13 "2022-08-30T23:13:05Z")
A brand new 2022 Nissan Leaf with a 40kWh battery is going to get about 100 miles on a charge in the winter. So that is new technology. If you require that you EV car be capable of being licensed to drive on the freeway as an actual car then around $20k is as cheap as it going to get. Anything less will likely not pass saftey or crash test standards. Going with a smaller battery will not save you much. Maybe get the car down to say $17k. Problem is not enough people want to buy an actual car like that to make it worth building. And the Leaf is a good example of how low you can go with newer technolgy. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/14 "2022-08-31T00:09:30Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And the Leaf is a good example of how low you can go with newer technolgy. Possibly yes but it very well may be that it just came in too early in the process of switching to these ultra-lights. It has to start somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![LivingGhost371](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@LivingGhost371](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LivingGhost371)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/15 "2022-08-31T00:14:35Z")
You probably don’t hear much about them because there’s almost zero interest in cars that are too slow to take on the freeway and with with a range so short you can’t take them across a large metro area and back. But they’re the answer to your hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/16 "2022-08-31T00:20:58Z")
Just because I’m fascinated with the probable scam nature of the entire enterprise, I’ll note that the ‘new vision’ of the Elio is something close to the OP’s intent - a cheap, light, all electric vehicle. Which I believe as much as all the other claims of a company that was going to sell their cars with all ‘off-the-shelf’ parts in just a few years…nearly a decade ago. You wouldn’t believe the number of lawsuits and cash flow issues they’re under based on the website, but here we go. > **[Elio Motors - The Ultimate Electric Vehicle Commuter](https://www.eliomotors.com/)** > > Elio Motors provides personal transportation alternatives that are fun to drive and built in the USA. Say goodbye to ordinary and say hello to Elio. Get updates now! For the record, a reasonable review of the Elio timeline can be found here instead, which I think would dissuade anyone from investing time or energy in these yahoos. > **[Elio Motors promised a next-gen, 84 mpg car and got millions in deposits. But...](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/money/cars/2021/10/21/elio-motors-took-millions-customer-deposits-never-delivered-car/5930672001/)** > > Phoenix-based Elio Motor took millions in customer deposits and promised an 84-mpg car. Customers are still waiting. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/17 "2022-08-31T00:52:17Z")
This article could have inspired the op. > **[Opinion | You Want an Electric Car With a 300-Mile Range? When Was the Last...](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/opinion/electric-car-battery-range.html)** > > There are better ways to use batteries than putting them in premium E.V.s. > [@](#): > > By improving home charging for urban apartment dwellers and prioritizing vehicles with smaller batteries, rather than road-trip-enabling charging stations and big batteries, we could maximize the miles we can affordably electrify. In an era of battery scarcity, we could have two 150-mile E.V.s for the battery capacity in every 300-mile E.V. Or, using the same 300-mile E.V. battery, you could have six plug-in hybrids with 50 miles of electric range for daily driving and a gasoline engine for those rarer road trips or many, many more e-bikes. The argument is that most users are wanting to buy a car with their edge case in mind, leading to excessive use of the needed commodities compared to buying cars with batteries right sized for nearly all their actual driving needs. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/18 "2022-08-31T01:02:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > using the same 300-mile E.V. battery, you could have six plug-in hybrids with 50 miles of electric range for daily driving LMFAO. Like the battery is the only cost in the car. Good quote @DSeid. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/19 "2022-08-31T01:42:35Z")
FWIW I think the argument is not less cost than less use of the various commodities that are in limited supply and for which rapidly increasing supply may have untoward environmental and geopolitical consequences: “supply side constraints”. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627/20 "2022-08-31T02:13:51Z")
'Zactly. Our collectively ability to build various ICE automobiles faster than customers want to buy them is not constrained (except by the recent chip shortages). Our collective ability to build batteries is nowhere near as robust. If tomorrow everyone wanted a battery car, not an ICE, we’d be able to build everything except the batteries at the necessary scale once we retooled. Batteries themselves would definitely be the long pole in that hypothetical changeover tent. And in that scenario, “rationing” batteries by putting half as many in twice as many chassis might be a collectively smart move. At least until battery production caught up. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-batteries-50-miles-as-opposed-to-300-miles-range/970627.md?page=2)