# Car Guys: Brake Fluid Flush? Fuel Injector Flush? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418 "2008-11-12T21:16:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/1 "2008-11-12T21:16:15Z")
The Toyota dealer just called (I’m in for a routine oil change, tire rotation and fluid service), and said that: 1. The rear brakes are down to 10% and need to be replaced ($398). 2. The brake fluid is a little cloudy, and he recommends a full brake fluid flush ($139). 3. They noticed a little carbon near the fuel injectors, and he recommends a fuel injection system flush ($229). Does this seem reasonable? The rear brakes, OK, but the rest of it sounds a bit like changing the air in the tires. Automotive experts, what say you? ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/2 "2008-11-12T21:30:37Z")
First, how many miles on the car? $400 for rear brakes? If that is the pads only, it’s a terrible price. $140 for brake fluid flush seems very high, although it’s possible you need the work. The likes of Meineke can do it for much cheaper. “Fuel injection system flush” I have never heard of, and it sounds like a ripoff. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/3 "2008-11-12T21:34:37Z")
The fuel injector flush really sounds like you’re being oversold something. Do you have drivability problems at all? Check engine light on? “Noticed some carbon?” What model/year is the vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/4 "2008-11-12T21:34:55Z")
Thanks. 35,000 miles on the car. Toyota Landcruiser. No problems, no check engine light. ---
**Author:** ![Yarster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@Yarster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yarster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/5 "2008-11-12T21:38:23Z")
I’m calling rip off on everything except the brakes, and while you may need them, at that price, I’m calling that a rip off too unless you live on a mountain, race your car, or do something else causing huge amounts of wear to the brakes where you have somehow destroyed your rotors too (highly doubtful). The brake job should cost half or maybe 2/3 that amount. ---
**Author:** ![masterofnone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@masterofnone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/masterofnone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/6 "2008-11-12T21:42:06Z")
For those prices they better fill up your blinker fluid and replace your flux capacitor while they’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/7 "2008-11-12T21:45:56Z")
Landcruiser changes things a bit. I’m sure parts for that are more expensive than Camry. No way you need brake fluid at 35k. If you aren’t noticing squealing or shuddering when you brake, I wouldn’t worry about the pads/rotors either. I should add, dealers in general and Toyota dealers in particular have the reputation of being crooks. I would take the car to an independent mechanic if you need brake work. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/8 "2008-11-12T21:50:38Z")
> [@masterofnone](#): > > For those prices they better fill up your blinker fluid and replace your flux capacitor while they’re at it. don’t forget replacing the muffler bearings… ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/9 "2008-11-12T21:54:52Z")
[QUOTE=shelbo] 1. They noticed a little carbon near the fuel injectors, and he recommends a fuel injection system flush ($229). [/QUOTE] Unless they pulled an injector, how would they be able to “notice” anything near them? And, I’ve never heard of it being part of the procedure for an oil change to pull injectors. AFAIK, an injector “flush” can be little more than pouring in a bottle of Techron - something that happens to come for free with every tank of gas from Chevron. Unless you also need new rear brake rotors, $398 is a crazy price. Sounds like they’re trying to sell you a box of muffler bearings. Needing new brake pads at 35,000 miles is not particularly unusual, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/10 "2008-11-12T21:59:54Z")
1.) Most rear brake linings last longer than that, but it is possible that they are worn that much. However, the price sounds way out of line for what would normally be needed at that mileage. I’d be shocked if the rotors need to be replaced, and seriously doubt they need to be machined. (The current advice from vehicle manufacturers is to resurface rotors only if they have deep scoring or warpage, both of which are unlikely at only 35K miles.) It’s a virtual certainty the calipers are okay, likewise any other components of the rear brakes. I smell overselling. 2.) Brake fluid flushing is a legitimate maintenance procedure, and the price isn’t out of line for a full flush including ABS components. Some manufacturers list it on the maintenance schedule at 30K miles, some at 60K, some just don’t list it (I didn’t see it for yours). It’s not a bad idea to flush it at this time, but then again I wouldn’t lose sleep over waiting until 60K. 3.) A fuel injection flush is a legitimate procedure, but not all vehicles have a need for it, especially at that low a mileage. I particularly question the notion of “seeing a little carbon near the fuel injectors.” Without doing significant disassembly, there’s no way to get a look at anything near the injectors. It is possible to see carbon build-up on the throttle body, but that’s a different animal - if it needs cleaning, it’s done at the throttle body itself, and has nothing to do with the injectors or any part that gasoline goes through. I smell a lie. My recommendation is to pass on all of these at this time, and get a second opinion at a reputable independent shop. ---
**Author:** ![Fritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Fritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fritz)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/11 "2008-11-12T22:08:03Z")
> [@masterofnone](#): > > For those prices they better fill up your blinker fluid and replace your flux capacitor while they’re at it. …and along with the brake shoes, replace the brake socks and laces, too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/12 "2008-11-12T22:21:24Z")
This, of course, is all assuming that you’re in the US. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/13 "2008-11-12T22:37:34Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Without doing significant disassembly, there’s no way to get a look at anything near the injectors. It is possible to see carbon build-up on the throttle body, but that’s a different animal - if it needs cleaning, it’s done at the throttle body itself, and has nothing to do with the injectors or any part that gasoline goes through. I smell a lie. Call them on it. Call them back and say "Oh my, you did? On the fuel injectors? Are you sure? The fuel injectors? So you’re saying that I bring my truck in for an oil change and you _dissassembled the engine_?!?! Without calling first? You’ve got to be _kidding me_? I want the service manager on the phone, right now. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/14 "2008-11-12T22:49:25Z")
Thanks all. About what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/15 "2008-11-12T22:55:37Z")
I got my brake lines “flushed” for $40 at my local brake shop. I can’t comment on the fuel injector thing although Wal-mart did some sort of injector “clean out” for $25, I think, the last time I got my oil changed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/16 "2008-11-12T23:00:31Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > I got my brake lines “flushed” for $40 at my local brake shop. > > I can’t comment on the fuel injector thing although Wal-mart did some sort of injector “clean out” for $25, I think, the last time I got my oil changed. That’s a _little_ more reasonable. $10 worth of Techron, $15 labor to pour it into your tank… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/17 "2008-11-12T23:48:52Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > I can’t comment on the fuel injector thing although Wal-mart did some sort of injector “clean out” for $25, I think, the last time I got my oil changed. They poured a $4 bottle of STP fuel injector cleaner into your gas tank. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/18 "2008-11-13T00:12:38Z")
Just a quick look at [partsamerica.com](http://partsamerica.com)… Rear brake pads for a Land Cruiser (I’m assuming about a 2004) start at $29.95 for the organic pads, all the way up to $109.99 for ceramic pads, with a bunch of in-between options. I’m guessing they all have rear disc brakes since there is no mention of shoes anywhere. At 35,000 miles, I can’t imagine that the rear brakes would be worn enough to require turning or replacement of a rotor…actually, [partsamerica.com](http://partsamerica.com) doesn’t list rear rotors, so they may be a dealer-only item. But the front rotors are as cheap as $38 each. Most auto parts stores will resurface a rotor for $5 to $10. I’ve replaced disc brake pads on probably 20 different vehicles and not one of them required any special tools…usually a box wrench or allen wrench and a c-clamp to compress the piston. The job can be done in about 15 minutes by anyone who’s done it before. So the labor couldn’t possibly be very much. If you have to pull the rotor, it gets a little messy with the greasy wheel bearings, etc, and can take longer. If you somehow force air into the brake lines, it can get a little complicated, but that usually doesn’t happen (see the next paragraph about bleeding/flushing the lines). The calipers might have to be rebuilt or replaced or the brake lines may need replacement, but not likely at 35,000 miles. Flushing the brake lines involves opening the bleed valves and forcing clean brake fluid through the system. The only part involved is a couple of quarts of brake fluid. Find a reputable local mechanic and you’ll find a much better price (and you’ll probably also find that none of the work is necessary). ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/19 "2008-11-13T00:16:28Z")
I think people tend to be a bit paranoid about brake rotors. . Twice (different vehicles) I’ve gone to replace the pads and noticed some scoring, but decided not to have the rotors turned. I replaced the pads and the brakes worked just fine. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418/20 "2008-11-13T00:36:10Z")
Even though I always asked my Toyota dealer to do just the manufacturer-recommended service items (the “dealer-recommended service” is just upsell, according to a friend in the trade) I got fed up with the number of times they suggested various flushes and such. I started keeping a record so that when they called me I could point out that they did that only 15,000 miles ago. So I fired them and I now go to a local mechanic. They have no service recommendations - they change the oil and check out the car and tell me what needs doing. It was such a refreshing change to get a call telling me my car was ready (no extra work needed) rather than the hundreds of dollars of extra work that the dealer would call with. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-guys-brake-fluid-flush-fuel-injector-flush/472418.md?page=2)