Heh. I took a picture of his driver’s license at the scene as well. Willingly offered up by the other driver.
UPDATE:
After the other driver’s 30 days were up, he finally made a statement to his insurance company. His insurance company decided to assign their insured 85% liability and me 15% liability.
This is shrewd on their part. Since I can’t go through my own insurance company and pay the deductible out of pocket, they can get away with paying less than 100% of the damages. I am letting their adjuster work up an estimate on the repairs. They will cut me a check on the spot, and I can take that check to a friend-of-the-family body shop and see how much they can do for the amount rendered.
…
In retrospect, anything I can do in the future to head off this kind of stuff? Insist on the cops coming out and taking a report, I guess? Sucks that our local police make waiting on a non-injury traffic-accident report so onerous (4 hrs+ wait is typical) … but when people are willing to dig in their heels and be dishonest, what can you do?
…
Thought:
This might be me being naive … but can I take the adjuster’s check and not use it on the repair? We’re looking to buy a new vehicle soon (not to replace the one involved in the accident), and the money from the insurance company would make the down payment a lot nicer. Last year, I went through almost this same exact scenario with this same insurance company – once their adjuster cut me a check, they sent me on my way and never checked anything. I deposited the check into my back account and didn’t pay for the repair until about two weeks later. Not sure whether or not it’s common for people to not repair their vehicle and just use the money for something else – or else, is that fraud?
You can use it for anything you want, that money is yours. The only case in which that money isn’t your’s for the keeping is if you were to collect any money from the other party. In that case, you’ll have to pay back the insurance company. Anything you collect up to what they paid you, goes back to them.
Beyond that, they really don’t care.
As for what you could have done different, you could have gone to your own insurance company either immediately or as soon as you knew there was a problem. As soon as his company said they couldn’t get a hold of him, file the claim with yours and let them figure it out.
I suppose you could take it one step further and take him to small claims, but I’d see what happens with them first.
The only thing that prevented me from doing this was the size of my deductible.
I did file a claim against my insurance shortly before I filed a claim with the other driver’s insurance. Never went any further through my own insurance, though.
To be clear, I am talking about the other driver’s insurance company’s adjuster cutting me a check – not a check from my own insurance company.
Right. Joey is just saying that your insurance has first crack against any payment by their insurance company up to the extent of the funds they have paid out. If they didn’t pay anything, you don’t have to worry about it. And yes, you can keep the money rather than using it for repairs. It is a payment for damages to your property, not a payment for repairs. The repair cost just happens to be the easiest measurement of your damages.
Dashcam. You call the cops (who don’t generally come to parking lots, cuz they’re private property, unless someone is injured) and they’ll just look at the cars, look at both of you, and say, “Ya I dunno.” and off they go.
Dashcam. $250 at CarToys, another $250 or so to install, and now you have an unbiased eyewitness with perfect memory. Also good if you witness an accident, you can get a copy of the relevant clip to whomever might need it. Sounds expensive, but how much is your deductible? And if you lose the coin toss and end up with a premium surcharge, how much will that work out to? Dashcam. All day long.
ETA: when the car is shut off mine records automatically when it detects motion nearby. So even if your car is not running and someone smacks it, you got 'em. Dashcam.
Thanks for the advice, everyone.
Yeah, Inigo … getting that dashcam is looking like a pretty good idea right now. Been caught twice by cars back into mine over the past 12 months. When the other driver is honest, no problem. But I now see I can’t count on that.
Do you have 2 sidecams and a rearcam too? If not, what’s your reasoning?
It does front and rear–there is a camera mounted high on the rear window wired directly to the one at the windshield. No side views, but most of the interesting stuff happens in front or behind anyway. Are you aware of any systems that do side shots as well?
I don’t have any cams. A google search reveals some that claim a 360 degree view. Do they have ones that encrypt the footage? If you are at fault, could you refuse to reveal the password?
Don’t know that much about the technicals of what’s available. As far as the data on the cam if I am at fault, it likely depends on what state we’re talking about (lawyer stuff). In Colorado, it IS discoverable evidence. If liability for an accident I am involved in is in question, I can be required to produce the footage. If it has been overwritten or is otherwise unavailable, the footage is presumed to be adverse to my position. In order for this to become a problem for me, the plaintiff would have to be aware of the existence of the footage. Philosophically, what I think you’re getting at is a valid point. In the real world it is an extraordinarily rare situation. As long as dashcams are relatively rare, I suppose.
How can one be 15% at fault for being stopped properly and sitting still?
Fortunately, it wasn’t “15% legally at fault” – 85% was simply how far the other driver’s insurance company was willing to go given the information they had on hand. In short: the other driver’s insurance company had only my oral statement and their driver’s oral statement, plus photos, to go on. No police came out, no police report, no witness statements, no video, nothing else. He said vs. he said, plus pics.
My suspicion is that the other driver told his insurance carrier that I was moving forward at the time of the collision. At the scene, he had said he didn’t see my car at all, and was wondering if I was trying to pass him on his right (in the parking lot, I stress, not on a roadway). I told him that, no, my car was braked while I waited for the line of vehicles ahead of me to exit the lot (which is what I thought HE was doing, too 
). The other driver seemed to accept that at the time, though he did ask again whether I was trying to get around him before we left the scene.
Thankfully, the pics showed the other driver’s license plate clearly, or else he may have been able to deny he was there at all. Though I had a picture of his driver’s license and insurance card, as well, so maybe not.
In retrospect, I could have gone through my insurance company had I been willing to put up $500 and not get it reimbursed for an indeterminate amount of time (my understanding is that 6 months is a rough average). That 15% amounted to the settlement being reduced about $240, so I just took the 85% and called it a day.
#1) Document EVERYTHING.
I think what you did (contacting both insurance companies) was the right way to go and I’ve followed the same procedure in my past collisions. My contacts were with the claims departments, though I was pleasantly surprised to get a call at start-of-business the next day from my agent. Her call to inquire about my health and anciliary needs was mostly business and partly just because she’s a sweet person-focussed type of lady. By mid-day I had gotten a call back from my insurance company’s claims department and they noted that, IF I needed it, they had one of their attorneys queued up and ready to go to battle on my behalf.
A minor fender-bender with my wife’s car was paid immediately and the other driver’s insurance company covered the cost of a rental car and even several points of hidden damage that the body shop discovered during their efforts. That guy was completely apologetic and claimed full responsibility for allowing his car to roll forward while he was reaching for a bottle of water that had fallen on the floor.
I think I’ve written (somewhere around here) about my motorcycle collision; the salient points here being that the other driver tried to claim I was at fault for her trying to run a yellow despite the fact that I was trying to obey traffic laws and stop, the police didn’t believe her side, and the witness who volunteered to testify wrote down something that didn’t corroborate the other driver either (and all I had encouraged her to do was “write down what you believe you saw when you get home tonight”). My and the other driver’s insurance adjustment teams both encouraged me to get a rental car and stay off the bike until the insurance case was closed. The legal teams communicated, got and shared reports, and ended up deciding that the other driver’s insurance company would handle the entire matter.
And the other driver continued to insist she was not at fault.
Ten weeks later, after being asked the fourth or fifth time if there were any other details I could remember, I was reviewing my notes and scribbles and found that I had jotted down a quote from the girl on the phone who was the Claims In-Take person when I was following-up the morning after I filed my initial claims. She had said she couldn’t find my claim from the night before in the computer system and, when I asked if she was sure, she said, “Nope. I see claims from 2011, 2012, 2013, but not one for 2014. So let me start a new claim form…what is your name again?”
I sent that info to the other driver’s adjustment team leader, along with some speculative questions – Does she have accidents once a year – how many years back does her Claim history go? Does she keep having accidents in mid-Autumn? Does she keep having accidents around dusk? If I’m the fourth in four years, is some kind of pattern occuring with this driver? Should she be taking written or driving DMV tests again?
Two days later, the adjustment team lead from the other driver’s insurance company called and asked where to send my check. I refused to provide an address and noted that I wouldn’t cash a check or sign closure papers* until the rental car fees were covered. Half an hour later the rental car company assured me they had been paid; fifteen minutes after that, the claims guy told me the check request had been submitted for printing.
#2) I’ll second Inigo Montoya’s support of Dashcams. I got one for my wife a couple years ago (well after the accidents) from OpenSky (though I don’t necessarily endorse their discounting model) for about $100 and I got it specifically because it mounts behind the rear-view mirror and doesn’t obstruct human views. I’d love to get a rear-view camera, as well. [I’d also love to mount 4 of those 120-degree view cameras on my motorcycle, as well!]
#3) Since you’re smart enough to take pictures, I’ll assume you’ve got one of those ubiquitous smartphones and encourage you to do more recording. While you’re fiddling with apps and buttons, turn on the sound recorder to capture the admission/conversation/discussion/argument. In the fender-bender case, above, I took pictures of the damage and the license plates, then turned on the sound recorder and stuck the smartphone in my shirt pocket with the microphone sticking out so it would capture voices. Had I thought of it at the time, I might have turned on the video-recording app – but I think that would have been super-obvious and there might be consent laws around such a thing, as well. Fortunately for us, there was no need for audio evidence (or even a claim from our side).
What if you’re at fault?
First off, you should never be at fault. [Good luck there.]
Second, it just so happens that you pulled the chip out to give to whats-her-name that was in that accident that you witnessed a few weeks back – so she’d have the video evidence, mind you – and you just haven’t gotten around to replacing that chip yet. :dubious:
–G!
Thanks, Gestarian. What you outlined in green was exactly my experience when someone backed into my car in July 2017. Same insurance company last year as in the OP above. Significantly different result, though, due to the actions and attitudes of the other drivers.
Just an FYI, if you had gone through your insurance company, you only actually put up the deductible if you get the car fixed and it costs what the insurance company estimated. Let’s say your insurance company decides there is $2000 worth of damage to your car. Your deductible is $500, so they give you a check for $1500. You go to Joe’s Garage to get your car fixed, and they want $2000 - in that case, you have to come up with the $500 and wait to be reimbursed. If it costs you less than $1500 to fix your car ( you find a better price, or you skip some minor cosmetic repairs or your uncle does it and you just pay for parts) you don’t have to come up with the $500.