# car insurance claim **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217 "2006-03-20T23:36:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/1 "2006-03-20T23:36:28Z")
I ran into the back of a rental car a couple of years ago. It was a very minor fender bender and my insurance company paid for the damage to my car and more than they wanted to for the damage to the rental car. Now the rental car company is claiming fees due for “diminuation in value” ($2600) and “loss of use” ($719). My insurance company balks at these fees and says they should not have to pay them. Meanwhile, the rental car company is harassing me on the phone and by mail, saying they’re going to turn it over to a debt collector and ruin my credit if I don’t pay up. The insurance company says they shouldn’t be contacting me at all. Who is right? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/2 "2006-03-20T23:46:56Z")
You probably have something in your policy about your insurance company protecting you from things like that. If it comes down to it, your policy probably states that they have to supply you with a lawyer to defend you. I have an insurance company supplied lawyer defending me against a (false) personal injury claim. I agree that the company should not be contacting you. You have insurance for that and tell them to contact the company. You could just tell them to shut up and file suit if they mean it (not legal advise). Your insurance company should be liable for everything associated with such a suit. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/3 "2006-03-20T23:50:02Z")
> [@JillGat](#): > > I ran into the back of a rental car a couple of years ago. It was a very minor fender bender and my insurance company paid for the damage to my car and more than they wanted to for the damage to the rental car. Now the rental car company is claiming fees due for “diminuation in value” ($2600) and “loss of use” ($719). My insurance company balks at these fees and says they should not have to pay them. Meanwhile, the rental car company is harassing me on the phone and by mail, saying they’re going to turn it over to a debt collector and ruin my credit if I don’t pay up. The insurance company says they shouldn’t be contacting me at all. > > Who is right? While I have worked in auto insurance claims, it’s been a while, I don’t know the laws of your state, blah blah blah. (does that cover the disclaimers?) Loss of use is a standard thing asked for by car rental companies and they are allowed to collect it in most places. (check your rental agreement, it might be mentioned there). Diminished value is harder to quantify in many cases and I haven’t seen it paid that often. That’s not to say that they’re wrong for asking for it, just that they might not get it. As far as them calling you directly, that is very bad form. If they call you again, advise them to contact your insurance company. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/4 "2006-03-20T23:52:49Z")
I’d wonder what the terms of the settlement your insurance company made were - I’d expect it to say that the settlement was final. I know rental companies like to charge renters who get in accidents for loss of use, etc., but you have no contract with them. I’m not aware of people whose cars get damaged asking for this sort of settlement, so there is no reason they deserve it. I’d also record the frequency and times of these calls. I wonder if this falls under harassment? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/5 "2006-03-21T00:24:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’d wonder what the terms of the settlement your insurance company made were - I’d expect it to say that the settlement was final. I know rental companies like to charge renters who get in accidents for loss of use, etc., but you have no contract with them. I’m not aware of people whose cars get damaged asking for this sort of settlement, so there is no reason they deserve it. > > I’d also record the frequency and times of these calls. I wonder if this falls under harassment? They are allowed to claim loss of use for any time their car was being repaired and thus not available to be rented to others. That doesn’t apply with private individuals. Another thing I thought of, you said it was a few years ago. Do you know what the statute of limitations in your state is? If it’s past that time they don’t have a claim left. Or if it’s coming soon and the settlement hasn’t gone through, they’ll likely file suit to protect the statute. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/6 "2006-03-21T00:27:04Z")
Whether or not you’re responsible for this debt, under the [Fair Debt Collection Practices Act](http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm), you are entitled to demand that they cease contacting you in an effort to collect it: > [@](#): > > © CEASING COMMUNICATION. If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except – > > ``` > (1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector's further efforts are being terminated; > > (2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or > > (3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy. > > ``` > > If such notice from the consumer is made by mail, notification shall be complete upon receipt. With regard to the last sentence, I’d send your Cease and Desist demand via [Certified Mail](http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/extraservices/certifiedmailservice.htm). Now, wrt to the claim itself, I just phoned my insurance agent and she said that there’s a statute of limitations on filing any claims against you – one year to file any physical damage claim and 2 years to file bodily injury. Since they’ve already settled with you for damages, and didn’t invoke this claim at the time of the original claim they cannot legally pursue this any further. She said that if you want their address to send a Cease and Desist letter, to pretend that you’re going to send a payment, otherwise they’ll never give it to you. If it were me, I wouldn’t say it quite like that, since they sometimes record these calls and might try to use it against you, but I’d say something to the effect of, “If I were going to make a payment on this account, to what address and to who’s attention should I send it?” She said to then refer them to your insurance agent, who is responsible for handling this on your behalf, and not accept any further calls from the rental agency – just hang up on them every time they call. And if they don’t stop calling, you can file criminal harrassment charges against them. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/7 "2006-03-21T21:05:28Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > They are allowed to claim loss of use for any time their car was being repaired and thus not available to be rented to others. That doesn’t apply with private individuals. > > Another thing I thought of, you said it was a few years ago. Do you know what the statute of limitations in your state is? If it’s past that time they don’t have a claim left. Or if it’s coming soon and the settlement hasn’t gone through, they’ll likely file suit to protect the statute. If the accident was to a car that **JillGat** had rented, with a contract, there would be no issue. Remember, however, that the rental car was not hers, so she has not contractual obligation to pay for loss of use. I don’t see how the rental car company would have any more standing than a private individual. If they had sued, and a judgement awarded, that would be something else - but any private individual could sue also. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/8 "2006-03-21T21:43:17Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If the accident was to a car that **JillGat** had rented, with a contract, there would be no issue. Remember, however, that the rental car was not hers, so she has not contractual obligation to pay for loss of use. I don’t see how the rental car company would have any more standing than a private individual. If they had sued, and a judgement awarded, that would be something else - but any private individual could sue also. I did misread that bit about the other car being the rental, but LOU, in my experience as a claims adjuster, can still apply. And of course, they shouldn’t be coming after her now, I was just explaining why LOU applies to rental companies and not to most private individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/9 "2006-03-21T22:25:23Z")
Really, the specifics of this vary radically between state to state. Wyoming has case law, jury instructions and legal code effectively saying “nuts!” to Loss of Use unless a vehicle was actually rented as the temporary replacement. Other states grant it with equal vigor irrespective of the actual loss sustained. BUT. With regard to the blood-sucking rental agencies: The rental agency does not use the vehicle for private company business, and therefore did not have to acquire a replacement vehicle while their car was being repaired. The vehicle IS used by the rental agency to meet the demands of customers, however. Its down time may have led to a loss of income for the rental company. For you to be responsible for this lost income, the rental company must demonstrate that it had no other similar vehicles available for rental during the period in which the car was being repaired. Follow me? You or I would have a valid Loss of Use claim because we use our cars on a daily basis for our own personal transportation and can not conduct our normal daily business without it. Diminished Value is virtualy impossible to justify as well. If the rental agency still owns the car they certainly have nothing to base such a claim on–how do they know what the vehicle’s value is if they still own it? There is no standardized and accepted method of devaluing a vehicle which has been properly repaired with parts, often in NEWER condition than those removed. A case could just as easily be made that they owe the insurance company for betterment–that rear bumper has 30,000 fewer miles and newer paint on it than the rest of the car! I’ve never seen a diminished value claim paid, and never seen a loss of use claim paid to a rental agency–except once. And that one time the agency was able to provide a list of its entire local inventory and to whom each car was rented. They actually presented a believable case supporting loss of income from that one car’s absence. In order for you to be in a position where you owed the rental agency anything, they have to demonstrate the debt. Otherwise you could just as easily turn around and bill them for for the income you lost because you missed a promotion at work because your work product suffered as the result of their pestering you. They need to discuss this with your insurance company. Give their information to your insurance company. If they circumvent your insurer and do you with collections and damage your credit by trying to collect a debt they have not demonstrated you owe, then they are truly in deep doo-doo and have set themselves up for defamation/personal injury at the very least. And then you can screw them six ways to Sunday with punative damages that are limited only by a judge’s wrath. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/10 "2006-03-21T22:39:43Z")
**Inigo** , it’s always interesting to hear how other states handle insurance matters. Something like this shows how specific local information is needed to evaluate a situation. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge of WY law, I always like to learn. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/11 "2006-03-22T02:02:46Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > the [Fair Debt Collection Practices Act](http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm) only applies to debt collectors–those who collect the debt of another. If it is the rental car company place calling, the FDCPA won’t help. State law might. > [@](#): > > Now, wrt to the claim itself, I just phoned my insurance agent and she said that there’s a statute of limitations on filing any claims against you – one year to file any physical damage claim and 2 years to file bodily injury. Depends on the state. > [@](#): > > Since they’ve already settled with you for damages, and didn’t invoke this claim at the time of the original claim they cannot legally pursue this any further. Depends on many things. State law, whether there was a release, and what the release said, for starters. **JillGat** , what state are you in? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/12 "2006-03-22T04:00:45Z")
Every insureance check I have ever been near has had a release either attched which had to be signed before the check was turned over, or wording on the check that cashing it acknowledged that the claim was paid in full. I always thought this was SOP with every insurance company. Turn this over to your insurance company. They can proabably make it go away real quick. If not they owe you right of defense. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/13 "2006-03-22T23:59:58Z")
> [@](#): > > In order for you to be in a position where you owed the rental agency anything, they have to demonstrate the debt. This is what my insurance company is saying. They have asked the rental car company to provide evidence of diminished value and proof that they didn’t have other cars available to rent. The company hasn’t provided any of this information, so my insurance company refuses to pay them. They also promise to defend me against them, if it comes to that. I’m in New Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/14 "2006-03-23T00:41:22Z")
> [@JillGat](#): > > I’m in New Mexico. Contact these people: [http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/insurance/investigations/insinvestigationsca.htm](http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/insurance/investigations/insinvestigationsca.htm) [http://www.ago.state.nm.us/divs/cons/cons\_form.htm](http://www.ago.state.nm.us/divs/cons/cons_form.htm) It looks like some NM rental car companies put diminution of value and loss of use into their rental agreements FWIW. [http://bbrs.nmsu.edu/nmbizoutlook/showarticle.php?articleID=50119;](http://bbrs.nmsu.edu/nmbizoutlook/showarticle.php?articleID=50119;) [http://www.thrifty.com/about/generalpolicies.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1](http://www.thrifty.com/about/generalpolicies.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1) ;[http://www.dollar.com/about/general\_policies.aspx](http://www.dollar.com/about/general_policies.aspx) ;[Error](https://www.thrifty.com/BlueChip/TermsPopUp.aspx?key=TermsConditions). As the first link indicates, your automobile insurance policy might or might not cover those costs. At any rate, contact the two agencies that I linked above. They should be able to help a little. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/15 "2006-03-23T11:45:04Z")
**JillGat** _was not renting the car that was damaged_, so their little contract and clauses don’t apply to her. It’s a strict insurance/liability question; not a contract question. So really the question can ignore the fact that the car damaged belonged to a rental company. It could have belonged to any industry that needs a car to make a living – Molly Maids, let’s say. So, if you’re liable for damages, are you also liable for loss of value and loss of use? Heck, substitute “widgets” for “car.” ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/16 "2006-03-23T14:53:46Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > **JillGat** _was not renting the car that was damaged_, so their little contract and clauses don’t apply to her. It’s a strict insurance/liability question; not a contract question. > > So really the question can ignore the fact that the car damaged belonged to a rental company. It could have belonged to any industry that needs a car to make a living – Molly Maids, let’s say. So, if you’re liable for damages, are you also liable for loss of value and loss of use? Heck, substitute “widgets” for “car.” She should contact the agencies that I identified above, either way. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/17 "2006-03-23T16:38:09Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > She should contact the agencies that I identified above, either way. Those agencies would be helpful only if I had complaints about my insurance company. The issue is the rental car company contacting me directly and threatening me with debt collectors. They should be dealing with my insurance company, because my insurance covers the costs of any damages that they can show they’ve suffered. So far, the rental car company has not responded to requests that they provide that information. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/18 "2006-03-23T17:01:06Z")
> [@JillGat](#): > > Those agencies would be helpful only if I had complaints about my insurance company. The issue is the rental car company contacting me directly and threatening me with debt collectors. They should be dealing with my insurance company, because my insurance covers the costs of any damages that they can show they’ve suffered. So far, the rental car company has not responded to requests that they provide that information. Well if your state has some sort of anti-harassment laws with penalties, and you can document this harassment, you may be able to turn the tables on them and extract some cash from them for this illegal (assuming it’s illegal) harassment. [This outlines who to contact in New Mexico](http://www.nmpovertylaw.org/HOMELESS_MANUAL.pdf) > [@](#): > > Before reporting the harassment or otherwise taking action, you should ascertain the name and address of the creditor; whether the client has any notices, letters, receipts, or other documents pertaining to the debt; and your client’s source and amount of income. Violations of the CARA can be reported to the NM State Regulation and Licensing Department Financial Institutions Division at: 2550 Cerrillos Rd, 3rd Floor, Santa Fe, NM 87505, Phone: 505/476-4885, Fax: 505/476-4670, Email: [RLDFID@state.nm.us](mailto:RLDFID@state.nm.us) (see Appendix Item 42 for a copy of the complaint form). Violations of the FDCPA can be reported to the NM Attorney General’s office (see contact information on next page, in Section 2, or the Federal Trade Commission by going to their website and filing an electronic complaint at: > [https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z\_ORG\_CODE=PU01](https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq%24.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01). You should request a credit report to see if the debt is being reported as a bad debt. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/19 "2006-03-23T17:05:16Z")
Here’s my take on the OP. There are two separate issues here. The loss claim that your insurance company is responsible for, up to the terms and limits of your policy, and the issue of the rental car company trying to collect directly from you. Your insurance company may try to help you w/ the second problem, in the vein of good customer relations, but I don’t see where they have any legal obligation to do so. If the rental car company’s actions damage you in some way, you may have a cause of action against them, but that’s going to require that you consult your own attorney and pursue it separately from the accident case. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217/20 "2006-03-23T17:07:56Z")
> [@JillGat](#): > > Those agencies would be helpful only if I had complaints about my insurance company. The issue is the rental car company contacting me directly and threatening me with debt collectors. They should be dealing with my insurance company, because my insurance covers the costs of any damages that they can show they’ve suffered. So far, the rental car company has not responded to requests that they provide that information. The New Mexico Attorney General (that was the second link)? Really? Did you call? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-insurance-claim/349217.md?page=2)