# Car Mavens: Compact wagon? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640 "2006-05-06T03:12:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/21 "2006-05-06T04:52:11Z")
The other thing is that CR is reporting that the Vibe/Matrix is really noisy inside. Why it should be moreso than the Corolla I don’t know. I am content to wait until the '07 model year if anything is on the horizon. I am currently driving a 96 Dode Ram Van 2500 conversion and it gets about 12. ☹ It is great to drive and I love it, but it is killing me at the pump. $90 every week is just too much. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/22 "2006-05-06T04:57:39Z")
Personally I think that every new car is noisy on the inside. You buy it brand new from the dealership and it sounds crunchy and crackly inside. Why? Because every company now feels the need to put as much damn plastic as possible into the interior of their cars. Plastic all over the damn place - not only does it look cheap and crummy, it makes those wonderful clickety-crackety-crockety-squeekety sounds all the damn time. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/23 "2006-05-06T05:04:29Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Are you serious? They use rap to advertise absolutely everything nowadays. Don’t let that influence your decision. And I like rap, but especialy the Matrix screams Gangsta. Why the Pontiac is less so is hard to define, but the accents are more understated. In either one, I would look ridiculous. Trust me. Same with the Xb I am afraid. Besides, that one is just ass-ugly IMHO. I would buy the car anyway, but it is still to small, and from what I hear noisy inside. Definately a turnoff. I like nice sound isolation. I was looking at Malibu Max, but it is more than I wanted to spend and another potential (probable?) POS. To re-iterate, I loved my GTI, but it was a little small in the cargo area. And I can’t see buying a VW of any kind again. Too many little problems all the time that are pitworthy. I still loved the car. I need a few feet behind a the back seat. One reason I am still not happy with the RAV4 is that they are boasting a “40% increase” in cargo area. Sorry, Toyota, but 1.4 times nothing is still nothing. Could you have stretched the vehicle another 10" and doubled it? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/24 "2006-05-06T05:10:25Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Personally I think that every new car is noisy on the inside. You buy it brand new from the dealership and it sounds crunchy and crackly inside. Why? Because every company now feels the need to put as much damn plastic as possible into the interior of their cars. Plastic all over the damn place - not only does it look cheap and crummy, it makes those wonderful clickety-crackety-crockety-squeekety sounds all the damn time. This problem has been licked more thourougly than a dead tuna in a cat hotel. Cars that squeak like that are just not made well. One thing I liked about the VW is the thing was screwed together. I would flog the crap out of it and it refused to squeak. I think that in some of these “Scion” type cars the rattling is a bonus to the target market. It makes the sub seem more powerful. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/25 "2006-05-06T05:14:54Z")
And Argent, the noise CU talks about is engine noise. Although with a 6 speed, You should be able to find a nice relaxed gear for highway cruising, no? I’ll go drive one, but I think it is going to be too small. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/26 "2006-05-06T05:16:37Z")
And I’m scratching my head and trying to decide exactly how a wagon is different from a four-door hatchback, apart from size. Seriously. Proportion? The wagon is wider than the hatchback? Removable seats? I mean, how do the Honda Fit, Suzuki Aerio, Chevy Aveo, Mazda 3, etc, differ functionally from the Ford Focus, Dodge Caliber, Volvo V50? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/27 "2006-05-06T05:28:56Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > And I’m scratching my head and trying to decide exactly how a wagon is different from a four-door hatchback, apart from size. Seriously. Proportion? The wagon is wider than the hatchback? Removable seats? > > I mean, how do the Honda Fit, Suzuki Aerio, Chevy Aveo, Mazda 3, etc, differ functionally from the Ford Focus, Dodge Caliber, Volvo V50? In a hatchback you have maybe two feet (or less) behind the rear seat. In a wagon you have roughly double that. When you fold the back seat, you get even more. I am looking at the Honda Fit, and it looks to have a flexible seating arrangement, it may fill the bill, but as it is a new model I will probably have to wait to get a decent price ☹ I need to go check out some of these in person. ---
**Author:** ![Cheez\_Whia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cheez\_Whia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheez_Whia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/28 "2006-05-06T12:39:55Z")
**Happy Wanderer** , I’m a little confused about calling the Vibe/Matrix small. It will comfortably seat five adults, with cargo. It’s based on the Corolla platform, and has four doors. I have had a hatchback (1994 Plymouth Sundance), and they are not even close. Also, don’t worry about your demographic; every Vibe driver I’ve seen has been a white, middle-aged female (including me). ---
**Author:** ![Cheez\_Whia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cheez\_Whia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheez_Whia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/29 "2006-05-06T12:42:32Z")
Also, the back seats fold down to make more room for cargo. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/30 "2006-05-06T16:09:58Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > In a hatchback you have maybe two feet (or less) behind the rear seat. In a wagon you have roughly double that. When you fold the back seat, you get even more. > > I am looking at the Honda Fit, and it looks to have a flexible seating arrangement, it may fill the bill, but as it is a new model I will probably have to wait to get a decent price ☹ > > I need to go check out some of these in person. I don’t understand. You’re shooting down things like the Matrix, because they’re hatchbacks with insufficient cargo space, but you like the Fit? It’s a nice, inexpensive car, but it looks smaller than the Matrix. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/31 "2006-05-06T17:15:32Z")
My wife and I both have Suzuki Aerios (hers is the hatchback SX) and we’re very happy. Give one a look. Not expensive, 155HP, good mileage (our 2003s get around 30 on our rural commutes). Nothing has gone wrong with them that was Suzuki’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/32 "2006-05-06T19:17:16Z")
Add the VW Jetta into the mix. If you are looking for a “traditional” wagon there are only a few out there today. Toyota got out of the traditional small wagon trade about 10 years ago, Honda hasn’t had a Civic wagon since 1991. The market just wasn’t there to support it in the US, but they have continued making them for Europe and Japan, where small wagons are much more popular. For the “traditional” wagon style, there’s the Kia Spectra and Rio, Suzuki Aerio and Forenza, Audi A3/4, VW Jetta, and the Volvo V50. Some of the non-traditional or crossover wagons, like the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, Mazda 3, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Chevy HHR, or Dodge Caliber. If you require the traditional look, your choices are somewhat limited. The non-traditional one often offer better room and flexibility, so you might want to broaden your search criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/33 "2006-05-06T22:51:18Z")
I’m also confused about your size requirements. A Vibe is too small, but an old Civic wagon or Honda Fit isn’t? The Vibe has a cargo capacity of 28 cu ft, the Fit only 21. The Civic was a compact to subcompact wagon, and I’d be surprised if it was much better. The Focus wagon, btw, has a cargo area of 38 cu ft, unless it’s a misprint in Consumer Reports. That seems awfully large to me - the same as the Ford Freestyle, which is a largish crossover vehicle, and the same as my Ford Escape. I really like the Escape, btw. If you’re looking to save money, you can find used ones quite cheap. In fact, if you’re really concerned about price, don’t look at a new car. Pick something 2 or 3 years old, with a year or two of warranty left on it. That way, you’re protected against hidden defects, but you’ll save 40-60% off the price of a new vehicle. That will allow you to move up in class. You say you want something with a nice interior in a wagon form? How about a used [Audi A4 Avant](http://www.audiusa.com/model_home/0,,bodyStyleId-2,00.html?bodystyle=a4avant)? 28 cu ft of capacity with the rear seat up, 62 with it down. 2002/2003 models are available for well under $20,000 on the used market. In new vehicles, it really looks like a [Focus Wagon](http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/ford/focus/100578106/researchlanding.html) fits the bill quite well. I’d still look at a used one - you’ll save a bundle. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/34 "2006-05-06T23:09:36Z")
The Mazda 6 comes in a real wagon, if you’re willing to consider intermediates/borderline mid-sized. ---
**Author:** ![Tortuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Tortuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tortuga)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/35 "2006-05-07T06:39:15Z")
I have a 2003 Jetta Wagon with the turbodiesel engine and I’m quite happy with it. I get from 42-50 mpg. They aren’t producing the Jetta Wagon anymore and the relative rarity and longevity of the TDI engine makes them harder to find then just walking onto a lot, but worth a look if you’re still looking. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/36 "2006-05-07T07:22:29Z")
Moved to IMHO. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/37 "2006-05-07T14:25:12Z")
**Happy Wanderer** , no disrespect, but I have read this thread and people have given some great suggestions, your reply seems to me to be boilded down to, yes but it’s not a honda or toyota compact wagon. If you are going to insist on having something that just doesn’t exist then your not going to find it. I suggest putting down your requirements in terms of space, price, mpg, and other requirements - which you seem to mention a few, but don’t exclude ones that fit that just because it’s not a non-existant honda or toyota. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/38 "2006-05-07T14:49:41Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > Ratty interior is not to modern standards. Cheap and uncomfortable. In my instance I value the interior more than the exterior. It is noisy. They are reliable, and AWD is a bonus. A little pricey if I recall. A decent one breaks 20k easy, no? Ratty? [Automobile.com review Subaru Impreza](http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Subaru/review/2006-subaru-impreza-2-5i-road-test/1407/) Personally, in the next year or so, I’m trading in my WRX for a top of the line Outback. I’m tired of shifting gears in the stop and sometimes go traffic in Calgary. But even my 2002 I wouldn’t consider the interior ratty or outdated. ---
**Author:** ![buncombe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@buncombe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buncombe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/39 "2006-05-07T16:37:22Z")
I don’t know much about it, but I do know that Mini Cooper is releasing a wagon version pretty soon. From the pics on [MotoringFile.com](http://MotoringFile.com), it looks pretty nifty. ---
**Author:** ![buncombe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@buncombe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buncombe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640/40 "2006-05-07T16:39:33Z")
Ah yes, after a little digging: [Mini Cooper Traveler.](http://motoringfile.com/2006/02/28/next-generation-mini-revealed-part-2/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-mavens-compact-wagon/355640.md?page=3)