# Car Question: Subaru Forester **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605 "2011-08-05T15:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/21 "2011-08-06T02:08:07Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > What really confuses me is why Subaru also uses the “Outback Sport” label on one of its Impreza models. Are the Outback Sport and regular Outback completely different models or just trim level different? Subaru has two different Outback models: the Outback, which is built on the Legacy frame, and the Outback Sport, which is built on the Impreza frame. Subaru also has two different SUV models: the Tribeca, which is built on the legacy frame, and the Forester, which is built on the Impreza frame. The Legacy frame is larger than the Impreza frame. Hope this helps! ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/22 "2011-08-06T02:09:47Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Specifically, I’m thinking of buying a 2011 model, and wonder what, if anything, you folks think about it and how it matches up against its competitors like the seemingly ubiquitous RAV-4. Funny you should post this; I just bought a 2011 Forester two weeks ago. I can’t help much with comparisons to other SUV models, as I didn’t look at any non-Subaru models, but if you have any specific questions about the Forester in particular, ask away! ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/23 "2011-08-06T02:48:50Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > With few exceptions warranties follow the car regardless of owner, so I don’t think there’s anything special about the treatment you received. The car experienced a major failure withing the warranty period and they fixed it. That’s how it should be. That may be how it should be, but after being told “tough luck” by GM and Volkswagen in response to my complaints about known defects in their products (peeling GM paint and falling Jetta windows), I was skeptical that Subaru wouldn’t also weasel out of their responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/24 "2011-08-06T03:05:39Z")
I have a 2010 Toyota Rav4 Sport exactly like [this one.](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.autosavant.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/2008_09_01_09_rav4_sport.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autosavant.com/2009/02/10/2009-toyota-rav4-sport-4x4-v6-review/&h=2000&w=3000&sz=1151&tbnid=u17bNIFfbYmNvM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtoyota%2Brav4%2Bsport%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=toyota+rav4+sport&docid=zRw1RccpsaKP0M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1aw8TpyGHq_D0AGQwZnyAw&ved=0CGAQ9QEwBA&dur=328) It doesn’t have the spare tire on the back. It doesn’t have a spare at all. They come with run-flat tires standard which cool until you have to pay to replace them. I looked at all similar models before I picked that one. The one place the RAV4 6 cylinder really stands out is in performance. It has 269hp in a vehicle that isn’t that large or heavy giving it better performance than many old muscle cars. Cruising smooth at 80+ or 90+ MPH like I do on my commute every day is no issue and you always have plenty of passing power no matter who is front of you. The interior configuration is very versatile as well. The seat fold up on down to turn it from a five seat vehicle to a load hauler with minimal fuss. You can even add a third row seat if you want for small children hold 7 people total but I wouldn’t want to. The fuel economy is pretty good especially for an engine that powerful. There are some minor downsides to it. The stock stereo speakers suck although the head unit itself is decent. I had all the speakers replaced the first month and that cost a few hundred dollars. The interior is perfectly functional and durable but not elegant or luxurious looking. They could have spent more money on the interior to make it a truly special vehicle. The exterior fit and finish are very good however and the safety ratings are top notch. It isn’t a hard core off-road vehicle but it has handled everything I have driven it in very well including deep snow and ice without even noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/25 "2011-08-07T07:06:11Z")
My husband has a Forrester and absolutely loves it. He will be a Subaru person for the rest of his life. When my car crapped out, he wanted me to get a Subaru. (I wanted one, but didn’t get one for other reasons.) His is an older model, but he absolutely loves it. It has room in the back for some light hauling, but is still smaller, slightly more gas efficient, easier to handle, etc. He LOVES it. After all, Love. It’s what makes a Subaru a Subaru. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/26 "2011-08-07T14:04:27Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > That youtube video gets posted by a lot of Subaru people and is a good indication that the poster doesn’t understand how AWD works. > > The only thing that is being demonstrated is that the (last generation boxy bodystyle) Subaru Forester was not equipped with traction contro/ESC while its newer, more modern competitors were. Today this would be considered a glaring safety defect as the US has made ESC mandatory on all new cars. Additionally, all the technical explanations given in that video are outright lies. So you’re saying that the Honda and other will climb a hill if the front wheels have no traction? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/27 "2011-08-07T14:26:02Z")
Quite possibly not but that video is full of half truths and incorrect assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/28 "2011-08-07T15:11:37Z")
I’m reading this thread with great interest as our older Subaru may reach fail-point w/i the next 2-3 years. Its a Loyale station-wagon version that just reached 50k orig miles, but its the 4-cyl ‘town-car’ version, and we’re driving it a lot on highways (65 is 4k RPM). I’ve often thought how wonderful it would be to have this same car as a 6-cyl with cruise, but I know that nobody makes push-button 4WD anymore. Some websites have had comments from new owners indicating high 20s to low 30s MPG driving several hours on highways at 65, which would be ideal. I need a car that will get me through truly poor snow conditions as my current job specifically mandates attendance even during snow emergencies. I hate contemplating a car payment before I need to, but I’ve a good hunch that recent political/economic events will jump car loan APRs significantly. (Yes, I know I said in another thread I’d love a Challenger SRT. When I hit the lotto and can choose cars for pure fun over have to get to work no matter what, I may price them.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/29 "2011-08-07T15:18:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have a 2010 Toyota Rav4 Sport exactly like [this one.](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.autosavant.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/2008_09_01_09_rav4_sport.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.autosavant.com/2009/02/10/2009-toyota-rav4-sport-4x4-v6-review/&h=2000&w=3000&sz=1151&tbnid=u17bNIFfbYmNvM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtoyota%2Brav4%2Bsport%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=toyota+rav4+sport&docid=zRw1RccpsaKP0M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1aw8TpyGHq_D0AGQwZnyAw&ved=0CGAQ9QEwBA&dur=328) It doesn’t have the spare tire on the back. It doesn’t have a spare at all. They come with run-flat tires standard which cool until you have to pay to replace them. > > I looked at all similar models before I picked that one. The one place the RAV4 6 cylinder really stands out is in performance. It has 269hp in a vehicle that isn’t that large or heavy giving it better performance than many old muscle cars. Cruising smooth at 80+ or 90+ MPH like I do on my commute every day is no issue and you always have plenty of passing power no matter who is front of you. The interior configuration is very versatile as well. The seat fold up on down to turn it from a five seat vehicle to a load hauler with minimal fuss. You can even add a third row seat if you want for small children hold 7 people total but I wouldn’t want to. The fuel economy is pretty good especially for an engine that powerful. > > There are some minor downsides to it. The stock stereo speakers suck although the head unit itself is decent. I had all the speakers replaced the first month and that cost a few hundred dollars. The interior is perfectly functional and durable but not elegant or luxurious looking. They could have spent more money on the interior to make it a truly special vehicle. The exterior fit and finish are very good however and the safety ratings are top notch. It isn’t a hard core off-road vehicle but it has handled everything I have driven it in very well including deep snow and ice without even noticing. I was considering getting the engine upgrade (for the outback, it’s a V6; for the Forester, a turbocharged engine). Though the thought of higher fuel costs, not to mention paying an extra few thousand, was a bit of a deterrent. A question for those with RAV4s, Outbacks, Foresters etc. - do you find the V4 engine underpowered? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/30 "2011-08-07T15:23:50Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > That youtube video gets posted by a lot of Subaru people and is a good indication that the poster doesn’t understand how AWD works. > > The only thing that is being demonstrated is that the (last generation boxy bodystyle) Subaru Forester was not equipped with traction contro/ESC while its newer, more modern competitors were. Today this would be considered a glaring safety defect as the US has made ESC mandatory on all new cars. Additionally, all the technical explanations given in that video are outright lies. I admit not knowing anything about how AWD works. I sorta assumed all car models had more or less the same results, if not the same system. Are there significant differences between carmakers for AWD systems? If so, is there a good resource explaining what those differences are, in an unbiased manner? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/31 "2011-08-07T15:24:56Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Funny you should post this; I just bought a 2011 Forester two weeks ago. I can’t help much with comparisons to other SUV models, as I didn’t look at any non-Subaru models, but if you have any specific questions about the Forester in particular, ask away! Sure, thanks. One question: do you find the engine noise distracting? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/32 "2011-08-07T15:56:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Sure, thanks. One question: do you find the engine noise distracting? No, not at all. But I was driving a noisier car (a.15 year old Outback Sport) before I purchased the Forester, which might make a difference. Oh, and you wanted to know if the V4 engine was peppy enough? I’ve certainly found it so, and so has my father (who has a 2010 Forester, and who’s picky about how his car handles). My car steps right out when I step on the accelerator, and so far I’ve not found myself wishing for a more powerful engine. Someone who intends to do any towing might, though. The car does have one quirk which is worth mentioning: it takes an odd grade of motor oil (0W20 full synthetic). Since it’s not a grade which is easily found everywhere, I plan to pick up a quart or two from my Subaru dealer to keep in the car for road trips. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/33 "2011-08-07T16:11:35Z")
Just and anecdotal add-on: I have three friends who own Foresters. One was previously a muscle car guy, and the other two were smaller subarau owners previously. I think the newest of the three has about two years on it. They all love them. They all go on and on about them. They are subaru devotees. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/34 "2011-08-07T16:52:23Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I admit not knowing anything about how AWD works. I sorta assumed all car models had more or less the same results, if not the same system. > > Are there significant differences between carmakers for AWD systems? If so, is there a good resource explaining what those differences are, in an unbiased manner? [All Wheel Drive Explained - How it works](http://www.awdwiki.com/en/all+wheel+drive+explained/) is OK, although some of their entries for individual vehicles is poorly sourced and should be taken with a grain of salt. All the AWD drivetrains on the regular car market should work well enough for your purposes. Honestly I think don’t think most people even need AWD at all - for me I just keep pushing the limits until I get stuck, AWD simply allows me to get stuck even deeper in the woods and/or hit the guardrail with more force. :o ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/35 "2011-08-07T17:25:36Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > [All Wheel Drive Explained - How it works](http://www.awdwiki.com/en/all+wheel+drive+explained/) is OK, although some of their entries for individual vehicles is poorly sourced and should be taken with a grain of salt. Woah, thanks. That’s a great resource! I could spend/waste hours reading that site … 😃 For those following, here’s the quick link to the Subaru page: > **[Subaru all wheel drive explained](https://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/)** > > All all wheel drive Impreza, Legacy, Outback, Forester, Tribeca, and XV vehicles Turns out, Subaru uses four different AWD types, depending on the car. The Forester uses a so-called “Active” AWD system. Unfortunately, ultimately the source is Subaru’s own literature: > [@](#): > > Active all-wheel drive is a term coined by Subaru to differentiate the all-wheel drive system in the automatic transmission from other “reactive” all-wheel drive systems on the market today. What makes this all-wheel drive system so special is its ability to anticipate traction needs and act before a wheel slips. > > The mechanism that transfers torque fore and aft is contained within the transmission’s tailshaft. To the casual observer it looks just like a typical hydraulic clutch found in any automatic. The key difference in this clutch pack is its operation. It’s designed to slip according to how much all-wheel drive is needed. When an automatic’s clutch slips, it is due to a malfunction and will eventually burn up. But the multi-plate transfer (MPT) clutch uses a special friction material that easily withstands the friction loads generated during torque transfer. > > The MPT’s operation is controlled by the Transmission Control Unit (or TCU) and constantly changes dependent on how the vehicle is being driven. To get more all-wheel drive, the TCU increases the hydraulic pressure to the clutch for less slippage. Less all-wheel drive calls for more slip and the TCU reduces the hydraulic pressure to the clutch. > > Under normal, dry pavement operation torque split is about 90% front and 10% rear. This distribution helps to compensate for the car’s weight distribution and resultant smaller effective rolling diameter of the front tires. As weight transfers to the rear of the vehicle, (i.e., under acceleration), the TCU shifts the torque split more toward the rear wheels. Under hard braking, torque is directed forward. Torque distribution is changed based upon how the vehicle is being driven. Throttle position, gearshift lever position, current gear and other factors combine to influence the TCU and it, in turn, selects a software map that determines how aggressively torque split will be adjusted. > > Two speed sensors are used by the TCU to detect wheel slippage. One sensor monitors the front axle set, the other the rear axle set. Pre-programmed variables help the TCU differentiate between slipping wheels and normal wheel speed differentials as what occurs when cornering. A speed differential (front-to-rear) of up to 20% signals the TCU that the vehicle is cornering and torque is distributed to the front wheels to help increase traction during the turn. Anything above 20%, however, indicates to the TCU that wheel slippage is occurring and torque is then distributed to the rear wheels. > > Another feature of the all-wheel drive system is its interaction with the anti-lock brake system. When ABS is engaged, the transmission selects third gear, reducing the unpredictability of engine braking and, thus, reducing the possibility of wheel lock-up. But all four wheels are still connected to the engine through the AWD system and are brought back up to overall vehicle speed quicker and can, therefore, be controlled again sooner. In a two-wheel drive system if the locking wheel isn’t a drive wheel, it can only be brought back up to overall wheel speed by whatever traction exists between it and the road. The quicker a wheel is controlled the better the stopping performance. [http://www.autoworld.com/news/Subaru/Subaru\_All-Wheel.htm](http://www.autoworld.com/news/Subaru/Subaru_All-Wheel.htm) I assume the technical description is correct. What I don’t know, is whether the so-called “Active AWD” is in fact any better than the “Reactive AWD” allegedly used by other manufacturers. My working assumption is that they are all pretty good these days, no matter what system is used. > [@](#): > > All the AWD drivetrains on the regular car market should work well enough for your purposes. Honestly I think don’t think most people even need AWD at all - for me I just keep pushing the limits until I get stuck, AWD simply allows me to get stuck even deeper in the woods and/or hit the guardrail with more force. :o I like to do a bit of cross-country skiing, and over the last few winters I’ve gotten stuck repeatedly with the front wheels in a snowbank or on ice but the rear wheels safe and dry on the road or gravel - very annoying. I decided that any new car has gotta have some sort of AWD, partly for safety, but more just so as not to get stuck like that - rocking the car out of a snowbank is a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605/36 "2011-08-07T17:52:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Turns out, Subaru uses four different AWD types, depending on the car. The Forester uses a so-called “Active” AWD system. The 4 speed automatic version does, the manual transmission version has a center differential with viscous coupling lock. See my first post. The truth of the matter is that pretty much **all** the car makers use **all** the different variations depending on model and drivetrain layout, hell a lot of the components are probably made by the same suppliers, so saying one nameplate’s AWD is better than another’s is pretty silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-question-subaru-forester/591605.md?page=1)