# Car repair question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [February 20, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747 "2014-02-20T00:32:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/1 "2014-02-20T00:32:47Z")
I brought my car in today to get them to mount a tire that they replaced on Monday. (I brought the flat tire in off the car)
When mounting the tire they broke off the bolt . I should not have to pay for this bolt repair , correct? The car had no problems other than a flat tire . They created the broken bolt problem.
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### Author:  [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/2 "2014-02-20T01:13:49Z")
It is possible they caused it but more likely your bolt was allready weakened. Not uncommon at all and as far as I know customers are usually billed.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/3 "2014-02-20T02:22:19Z")
Nothing wrong with the bolt a few days ago when I took off the flat tire and put on the spare. I guess it just happened to go bad when these guys worked on it? Not buying that.
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### Author:  [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/4 "2014-02-20T02:45:24Z")
How old is the car? Lug nut studs can break, especially if the previous tech over torqued them. It happens and isn’t indicative of any wrongdoing on their part. I’ve broken them using air guns and using tire irons.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/5 "2014-02-20T02:50:41Z")
car has 110k miles on it. It’s a 99 Integra. If they make me pay, I will dispute the charge with Visa and I don’t think they want to mess with that. I was the last person to work on the wheel and I did not over torque the nut.
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### Author:  [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/6 "2014-02-20T03:20:28Z")
Isn’t this a ~$5 part? Is it worth the stress to dispute the charge?
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/7 "2014-02-20T03:29:09Z")
$5 is not a problem. They better not charge me labor for the repair.
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### Author:  [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/8 "2014-02-20T04:20:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> $5 is not a problem. They better not charge me labor for the repair.
It only takes a minute to replace a broken stud. Everywhere I’ve worked as a mechanic, if we broke a stud, we just put a new one on, and \*\*\*maybe \*\*\*we’d tell the customer. We’d never charge for it.
If they came in with broken studs, it’s a different story.
If you came in with wheel lock nuts on, but no key anywhere, then the numbers start rolling!
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### Author:  [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/9 "2014-02-20T04:44:36Z")
What kind of car is it? One some (e.g., my 2006 Honda Accord), front studs are not to trivial to replace - the hub has to be at least partially pressed out of the wheel bearing to generate clearance to insert the new stud in the hole.
[Here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyQMobnp5Wo) is a YouTube video showing a not-quite-factory-authorized method for altering the new stud and the steering knuckle in order to jam it in _in situ_.
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/10 "2014-02-20T05:25:58Z")
If the lug stud or lug bolt broke on disassembly, I would say it is for sure your issue. You might have left some moisture, or had the threads gall on the last reassembly. If on the other hand it snapped on reassembly, it may or may not be their fault. Without being there and looking at the pieces I really can’t offer an opinion.
I had a good friend bring in her Honda for some new front struts, and on disassembly one stud broke and two others tore the threads off from galling. This is in Southern California where there is no snow or salt. She had to pay for the studs, and new nuts.
She was good with that as she knew it wasn’t our fault.
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### Author:  [@48Willys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/48Willys)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/11 "2014-02-20T07:36:21Z")
> [@ducati](#):
>
> It only takes a minute to replace a broken stud. Everywhere I’ve worked as a mechanic, if we broke a stud, we just put a new one on, and \*\*\*maybe \*\*\*we’d tell the customer. We’d never charge for it.
>
> If they came in with broken studs, it’s a different story.
>
> If you came in with wheel lock nuts on, but no key anywhere, then the numbers start rolling!
This is what has been standard practice in the shops I worked in. Even if it takes a whole lot more time then “a few minutes”.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/12 "2014-02-20T15:29:26Z")
$364 total cost including $250 of labor so I am disputing this.
Forgot the worst part - they thought it was OK for me to drive around with 1 lug nut missing. ( car has 4) They asked me if they should fix the problem.
They also replaced the wheel bearing for some reason.
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### Author:  [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/13 "2014-02-20T16:12:06Z")
If you gave them your Visa card to run the charges through and took your car…if I were Visa, I would not accept your dispute.
My understanding is that credit card disputes are about fraudulent charges that were unknown to you, or that you order a blue coat online, and the vendor never sends it to you, yet they charge your account. In this case, the vendor (garage) explained the charges to you, you paid with your Visa, took your car. Bank charge dispute, is not some sort of panel or arbitration to determine if the services you received were valid or not.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/14 "2014-02-20T16:34:14Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#):
>
> If you gave them your Visa card to run the charges through and took your car…if I were Visa, I would not accept your dispute.
I’ve had people do charge backs over issues that had nothing to do with me. I just send the bill to a collection agency.
The OP should understand also that they are burning a bridge, and will not be welcomed back as a customer.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/15 "2014-02-20T17:34:39Z")
Like I really want to go back there?
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/16 "2014-02-20T17:59:19Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> Like I really want to go back there?
IANAMechanic, but their actions do not seem unusual to me. If you are in a small town, be prepared for wherever you go next to know about your chargeback.
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### Author:  [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/17 "2014-02-20T18:01:31Z")
Per: [http://creditcardforum.com/blog/credit-card-dispute/](http://creditcardforum.com/blog/credit-card-dispute/)
> [@](#):
>
> Know the difference between “billing errors” and “disputes of quality.” It’s very important to understand that these are two totally different things and there are different credit card dispute rights for each. First, let’s talk about billing errors…
>
> Dispute Rules For “Billing Errors”
>
> The Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA) applies to the following “billing errors” on credit cards:
> •Unauthorized charges. (Sidenote: Federal law 15 U.S.C. § 1643 limits a cardholder’s liability to a maximum of $50 for unauthorized charges. That being said, most reputable credit card companies will waive that $50 and give you zero fraud liability.)
> •Charges for goods and services you didn’t accept or weren’t delivered as agreed upon.
> •Charges that have the incorrect amount or date.
> •Charges incurred when payments/credits are not properly posted to your account – i.e. If you return an item and the credit never shows up on your account.
> •Charges in which you ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase, along with a claimed error or request for clarification.
> •Charges incurred due to the credit card company not mailing the statement to your current address. The change of address must have been provided in written form and the creditor must have received it at least 20 days before the billing cycle ended.
> •Math errors
>
> \_
> \_
> \_
>
> Dispute Process For “Quality of Goods & Services”
>
> As mentioned, if your complaint is about the quality of goods and services received, the above credit card dispute rules for “billing errors” will not apply. That being said, you will be entitled to other rights of protection if:
> •The purchase is for $50 or higher and it was made within your home state or 100 miles of your billing address. (Note: In some states internet purchases made from your home would qualify).
> • **You have already made a “good faith effort” to try and resolve the problems with the seller**
>
> If both of the above circumstances apply, you are allowed to take the same legal action against your credit card company that you can take under state law against the seller (so in a nutshell, if the seller violated state laws which entitle you to remedies, then you can go after your card issuer for those same remedies).
Doesn’t sound like you made a good faith effort to resolve the issue with the garage…just paid with your credit card and plan to dispute it.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/18 "2014-02-20T18:29:46Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#):
>
> Per: [http://creditcardforum.com/blog/credit-card-dispute/](http://creditcardforum.com/blog/credit-card-dispute/)
>
> Doesn’t sound like you made a good faith effort to resolve the issue with the garage…just paid with your credit card and plan to dispute it.
I agree. If you do not want them to do the work, the response is to drive/tow the car off the premises and take your business elsewhere. If you believe they owe damages, then you sue them. But having them do the work and then stiffing them?
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/19 "2014-02-20T18:38:10Z")
I am going to dispute with the shop first. And I bet they give me money back. I have no problem suing them.
There are only 100 other tire shops around so I don’t care if these people are mad at me.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-repair-question/681747/20 "2014-02-20T18:40:38Z")
It’s hard to evaluate the mechanical side of the situation without knowing the submodel of Integra, engine size, and whether it’s a front or rear wheel stud.
While replacing lug studs is a fairly simple procedure on some cars, that’s not the case on all cars. There are some designs where lug studs are not meant to be replaced separately, and are only provided by the car manufacturer as part of the wheel hub, often in a hub and bearing assembly. On these designs it may or may not be possible to just replace a stud, and if possible may or may not be up to standards. Thus it may be that replacing a bearing/hub assembly was the proper way to repair the broken stud.
As to whose responsibility it is to bear the cost of replacing a broken lug stud, it’s not always a simple and clear matter. Certainly if the shop failed to exercise proper care, they should be responsible. But studs are known to sometimes break even with careful workmanship, sometimes without any warning, and often without a reason that can be definitely determined. The seed may have been sown months or years ago by overtorquing, with no satisfactory way to prove that’s the case nor to positively identify who might have done it. In some states the legal responsibility may lie with whoever last had their hands on it, but in most cases it’s not possible to make a compelling case as to what caused the problem.
It’s certainly frustrating to have a new (and expensive) problem arise for no apparent reason, and naturally tempting to figure the blame lies with whoever had the part in hand when it broke. Nevertheless, it may not be the shop’s fault.
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