# Car salesman asked how I owed on my trade in. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487 "2016-05-10T14:41:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/101 "2016-05-16T05:02:27Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I’ve looked at a lot of real estate listings and have never seen loan information attached, can you give a link to one? I’ve seen that in the case of short sales, where the lender will need to accept less than it’s owed for the deal to proceed. That of course is the one special case where the buyer does care about the mortgage. I think it makes sense for car salesmen to ask. Some customers will be annoyed, but they’re the ones who will probably spend all afternoon grinding down the price, and then buy somewhere else because it was $75 cheaper. The rest will appreciate and pay for the salesman’s help in finding them a car they can afford, and/or get screwed a bit, depending how you look at it; but everybody’s happy either way. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/102 "2016-05-16T05:31:22Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > I think it makes sense for car salesmen to ask. Some customers will be annoyed, but they’re the ones who will probably spend all afternoon grinding down the price, and then buy somewhere else because it was $75 cheaper. The rest will appreciate and pay for the salesman’s help in finding them a car they can afford, and/or get screwed a bit, depending how you look at it; but everybody’s happy either way. No, I come to the dealership already knowing how much I can afford to spend; I don’t need the salesman’s “help” figuring that out, and I think most reasonably savvy people have a pretty good idea. I’m not going to leave a dealership over $75. I would, however, leave a dealership that would not give me a straight answer on the price of the vehicle. If you can’t tell me “the price of this car, including dealer prep and fees, is $X,” regardless of my credit rating or what I owe on my trade-in, then I’m going to assume you’re not going to be straightforward about anything else either. My credit rating and what I owe will determine whether I can afford $X, but they don’t have anything to do with whether the price is $X or $Y. I don’t have the time or the patience to negotiate with somebody who is either fiddle-farting around or actively trying to deceive. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/103 "2016-05-16T05:36:52Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Owing $100,000 on a $200,000 house is not a finance issue, it just means that at closing $100,000 goes to the bank to clear the mortgage. I sold a $140,000 house owing $90,000 on it and the information about what I owed didn’t come their way until the lawyer was drawing up the papers for how to handle the payout, this isn’t some weird obscure way of handling house sales. Let me ask you this: if you were a real estate agent, taking on a listing, would you not ask how much the homeowner owed on the house before signing a listing contract? > [@](#): > > Isn’t it interesting how the car sales people go from talking about how they’re a persecuted minority who get singled out for horrible treatment by the public and who are being horribly slandered in this thread, but then go on to post stuff like this? It’s like 'oh, we’re not sleazy, but if you want to negotiate the price of the car you’re buying before you even discuss a possible trade-in, then I’m going to call you a “dick” and a “smart ass” and claim that you’re negotiating “dishonorably”. And of course, the attempt to dissuade someone from protecting themselves against common manipulation tactics by saying that they’re weak if they have a psychology. > > Some people get suckered in by this stuff, but this is all pretty obvious attempts at manipulation. Do you car sales guys realize that you’re making your profession look much, much more sleazy by the way you’re acting in this thread? Im no longer in car sales, haven’t been for 20+ years. But thanks for assuming to know me. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/104 "2016-05-16T05:49:05Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > No, I come to the dealership already knowing how much I can afford to spend; I don’t need the salesman’s “help” figuring that out, and I think most reasonably savvy people have a pretty good idea. I’m not going to leave a dealership over $75. I would, however, leave a dealership that would not give me a straight answer on the price of the vehicle. Yeah, but “reasonably savvy people” aren’t necessarily the best customers. The dealer is there to make the most money, not to sell the most cars, and certainly not to sell a car to you in particular. Smaller dealers seem to be the worst this way, perhaps because they can’t get the same kind of manufacturer incentives that larger dealers do, so they know they’ll lose the price-sensitive customers no matter what their salesmen do. In the old days, I think people who just wanted to buy and not get sold to went to the fleet sales desk, or mass-faxed all the dealers in the area. Then the Internet sales desks were okay initially, but they seem to have picked up the same unpleasant sales scripts in the last few years. I’m not sure what the best way is now to just get a price, wire the money, and pick up the car. Maybe fleet sales again? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/105 "2016-05-16T13:03:17Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > Are you saying a car salesman would give more on a trade in than he really believes the car is worth? That seems hard to believe. I would have to assume that somewhere in the process, any loss taken on the trade in would come back to bite the salesman who made the deal. Yes, because the bottom line profit to the dealer is the same. If he makes 1500 on the new car and 500 on the used its the same as if he makes 3000 on the new car and loses 1000 on the used. At the end of the day he still makes a profit with the added advantage that the overall average price for new cars remains high and filters into the internet watchdogs that way. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/106 "2016-05-16T13:20:30Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > I think it makes sense for car salesmen to ask > [@TommySeven](#): > > Yeah, but “reasonably savvy people” aren’t necessarily the best customers. The dealer is there to make the most money, Has anyone on this thread argued that it doesn’t make sense for car salesmen to ask? Has anyone other than car salesmen promoting their virtuous nature argued that the dealer isn’t there to make the most money, or that savvy people aren’t the best customers to make a lot of money on? > [@russian\_heel](#): > > Let me ask you this: if you were a real estate agent, taking on a listing, would you not ask how much the homeowner owed on the house before signing a listing contract? Let me ask you this: if you started with a specific analogy trying to point out a problem, and people pointed out that not only was the situation not an analogy a problem, but that they had actually been in that situation and it wasn’t remotely a problem, would you just ditch the analogy, or would you keep doubling down and trying to make the analogy fit the situation through several pages of replies? > [@](#): > > Im no longer in car sales, haven’t been for 20+ years. But thanks for assuming to know me. You were a car salesman and you’re very clearly arguing from the perspective of the salesman, so I classify you as one of the ‘car sales people’. It’s not exactly a leap. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/107 "2016-05-16T13:21:44Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Yes. Yes at all. Your not getting clear title if theres a finance issue on the house. And that’s not the point. Still don’t need to know how much the guy owes on the house. Only need to know if I can get clear title. Whether he owes $50 or $50,000 is nothing I’m concrened about. > [@](#): > > SUUUUUUURE you never negotiated trade in value or what was owed on the car until the price of the new car was negotiated. No car dealership worth its salt would even allow you to get to that point without discussing what you wanted for the trade, or what was owed on it. Car salesmen do this for a living. And if they cant handle your smart ass, they turn you over to a seasoned sales manager who will get the info out of you if you are serious about buying that car. Maybe all of the dealers I’ve worked with aren’t worth any salt. Or maybe you’ve only dealt with the salesmen assigned to dumb asses. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying a smart car buyer cant use the Internet to get the numbers they need to be prepared to go into a negotiation, but unless your are going up against a completely green or weak salesman whose gonna get fired soon anyway, theres no way your walking into a negotiation involving a trade without revealing what you expect for it and what you owe. I’ve never owed money on a trade in so it’s possible that we have a misunderstanding on this. > [@](#): > > I guess you could LIE, and bring up the trade AFTER negotiating a price on a new car, but ;lets be honest, 1/200 of the population is dick enough to do that and now you are re-entering a negotiation dishonorably, which could kill the entire deal. Or you could tell the dealer that you MAY trade in the car or sell it yourself depending on his trade in offer. You could also tell him that you will discuss the trade in AFTER you have his offer and his new car price. If HE wants to be a dick about then I can find another dealer faster than he can find another buyer. Honesty. It’s a very effective tool if you know how to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/108 "2016-05-16T13:22:27Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Let me ask you this: if you were a real estate agent, taking on a listing, would you not ask how much the homeowner owed on the house before signing a listing contract? > . Why would they need to know that unless you are assuming unusual circumstances like a short sale? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/109 "2016-05-16T14:01:28Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > SUUUUUUURE you never negotiated trade in value or what was owed on the car until the price of the new car was negotiated. No car dealership worth its salt would even allow you to get to that point without discussing what you wanted for the trade, or what was owed on it. Car salesmen do this for a living. And if they cant handle your smart ass, they turn you over to a seasoned sales manager who will get the info out of you if you are serious about buying that car. Huh? I never negotiate my trade-in until I’ve established the price I will pay for the new car. And I haven’t been hoodwinked by either the salesperson or the sales manager. … > [@](#): > > I’m not saying a smart car buyer cant use the Internet to get the numbers they need to be prepared to go into a negotiation, but unless your are going up against a completely green or weak salesman whose gonna get fired soon anyway, theres no way your walking into a negotiation involving a trade without revealing what you expect for it and what you owe. I guess you could LIE, and bring up the trade AFTER negotiating a price on a new car, but ;lets be honest, 1/200 of the population is dick enough to do that and now you are re-entering a negotiation dishonorably, which could kill the entire deal. It’s neither a lie or dishonorable, though I may very well be perceived as a dick by the car salesman - jeez, I think I can live with that. When asked what I’ll be trading in, I tell the salesman I might trade in a vehicle or I might sell it myself or I might let a family member use it for a bit. Any of those might be true, depending on what I’m offered for it. But I want to get to the bottom line of what I will pay for the new car first before we discuss a trade-in. You see, I have already looked on edmunds, kbb, [cars.com](http://cars.com) and have taken my potential trade-in to carmax, so I have a pretty good idea what it’s worth. But I don’t want to combine the two deals into one. And I don’t owe anything on my current vehicle, and I’m not going to talk about payments on the new one, either. I suppose being a cash buyer with no current loan does make my situation a bit out of the ordinary, I really don’t know. But I’m going to negotiate the deal the way I want to, or I’m leaving. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/110 "2016-05-16T14:04:29Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Your dealership may force that. I won’t shop at a dealership that won’t talk to me about what they’re charging me for the car, what they’re giving me for the trade in, and only later talk about financing. And I think that merging everything into one big confusing mess that you’re familiar with and the buyer isn’t is a great tactic for getting you a better deal - which isn’t good for the buyer. Same thing with all of the ‘monthly payment’ nonsense. This is how I look at it, too. I don’t care what “system” the dealership wants to use. I want to know what the new car is going to cost me, and what they are offering for my current car. I have other options on both the buy and selling side. I’ve sold cars privately before. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/111 "2016-05-16T14:24:11Z")
[added due to editing timeout] And, really, the last few times I’ve bought cars, it hasn’t been an issue with most dealerships. There are a couple in my town that are clinging to the old ways of doing business - they want to dictate where I will drive on the test drive, still use high pressure sales tactics, four square worksheets, want to talk about monthly payments even after I tell them I will pay cash, numerous trips back and forth to the sales manager, etc. I walked out of one and bought a car from a dealer 90 minutes away rather than play their games. And, FWIW, I don’t hold a grudge against the dealerships who want to play games. They obviously think it works to their favor, and it probably does for many car buyers. If they don’t want to sell a car in a manner I like or at a price I think is reasonable, that’s a business decision they can make. To be fair, they can probably sell the vehicle for more to someone else. I’m not saying I grind away to the last dollar, either, like some car buyers (I have a friend who brags about how many visits and how many rounds of negotiation he does at multiple dealers to buy a car). I don’t mind if I leave a hundred or two on the table compared to the most diligent buyers, but I certainly don’t want to leave a couple thousand dollars on the table. The last two cars I’ve bought were at dealerships which were much more modern and straightforward and customer-oriented. The process was actually pretty pleasant. I’m not saying they offered a low price right out of the gate, but it didn’t take long to get to a reasonable price, once I told them I knew that other dealers were selling the same exact vehicle for $x, so why couldn’t they. The Subaru dealer even surprised me by letting me order a car equipped exactly like I wanted it for the same price relative to invoice as one on their lot, with only a $200 refundable deposit. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/112 "2016-05-16T15:35:25Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Has anyone on this thread argued that it doesn’t make sense for car salesmen to ask? Has anyone other than car salesmen promoting their virtuous nature argued that the dealer isn’t there to make the most money, or that savvy people aren’t the best customers to make a lot of money on? So you’re saying that you agree that it makes sense for them to ask, but you want them to stop anyways? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Or are you just trying to get them to admit that their reasons aren’t purely selfless? They’re anonymous here, so nothing practical is stopping them; but what would they gain from it? A salesman who believes that he’s screwing his customers will never be as effective as one who genuinely believes in what he’s selling. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/113 "2016-05-16T15:50:33Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > So you’re saying that you agree that it makes sense for them to ask, but you want them to stop anyways? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. The question in the OP is: does it make sense for the customer to answer? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/114 "2016-05-16T16:04:06Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > So you’re saying that you agree that it makes sense for them to ask, but you want them to stop anyways? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. It helps to read the OP before jumping into the thread. Seriously, go back and read the first post, and note that it is a car buyer asking whether a salesman gets advantage from the question. I answered that question. Then various car salesmen (and a former car salesman, very important to make that distinction) claim that they gain no advantage from that information and would never use it to get themselves a better deal, which I (and others) disagree with. It also helps to respond to things that posters actually write - at no point have I said that car salesmen should stop asking the question, so I’m not sure why you’re asking if it’s my position. It makes sense for a salesman to ask all kinds of things. It’s often not to the customer’s advantage to answer. This is really basic, and has been covered over and over again, and if it doesn’t make sense to you then you probably don’t understand negotiation and the psychology involved very well. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/115 "2016-05-16T16:16:23Z")
Should salesmen ask? That really depends on the customer. Let’s say I feel my car is worth $6000 and I budget for $325 payment for a max of 5 years. I’ve gone to my CU or bank and know I’ll be paying 8% interest. Go online to any amortization calculator and I know i can afford to finance about $16,000. Allowing $2000 for tax, title, license, cost, being lowballed on my trade in, etc. I will ask the dealer to show me $20,000 or less cars. Anyone who goes into a dealer with a plan of “I can spend $X / month.” deserves all of the screwing they get from the dealer. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/116 "2016-05-16T18:24:44Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Yes, because the bottom line profit to the dealer is the same. If he makes 1500 on the new car and 500 on the used its the same as if he makes 3000 on the new car and loses 1000 on the used. At the end of the day he still makes a profit with the added advantage that the overall average price for new cars remains high and filters into the internet watchdogs that way. Ok, that makes sense. So is the salesman at some point accountable for any loss on the trade in if they do in fact, get less for the trade in than was paid for it? ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/117 "2016-05-16T20:03:26Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > It helps to read the OP before jumping into the thread. Seriously, go back and read the first post, and note that it is a car buyer asking whether a salesman gets advantage from the question. I answered that question. Just so we are clear, in which post do you claim to have “answered” the OP? ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/118 "2016-05-17T04:07:35Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > It helps to read the OP before jumping into the thread. Seriously, go back and read the first post, and note that it is a car buyer asking whether a salesman gets advantage from the question. I answered that question. I guess I don’t understand what you want. The OP’s question seemed long since answered. Some salesmen might say they don’t get an advantage from the information, but then why else, despite their protestations, would they be asking for it? Is it the second part of my question, that neither you nor **slash2k** quoted, that’s what you’re looking for here? Do you just want, despite the fact that it’s obvious from the salesmen’s actions that they (or whoever wrote the sales script) think they benefit from getting that information, for everyone to admit that here explicitly? I see how that might be cathartic, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. A good salesman believes in his product. The people who have been successful in selling cars (or anything else) are, disproportionately, the people who can make themselves genuinely believe that the thing that extracts the most profit for the dealership is also good for the customers. I don’t think I disagree with any advice you’d give to a buyer. I just don’t see why you think you can “get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it”. I mean that not as an insult to anyone, but as an observation of the role that that confidence and belief play in sales. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/119 "2016-05-17T04:36:24Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > Is it the second part of my question, that neither you nor **slash2k** quoted, that’s what you’re looking for here? I’m looking for discussion on a message board, like most people here. If I get tired of it or the thread dies, I’ll move on to something else, but there isn’t maniacal master plan of getting people to do some particular thing. But then, what are you looking for here? Do you have some hidden master plan that leads to a great objective? ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487/120 "2016-05-17T04:58:19Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I’m looking for discussion on a message board, like most people here. If I get tired of it or the thread dies, I’ll move on to something else, but there isn’t maniacal master plan of getting people to do some particular thing. But then, what are you looking for here? Do you have some hidden master plan that leads to a great objective? I’m wasting time on the Internet, same as everyone else. I just thought the argument was getting repetitive, and that it was more interesting to consider what incentives create the present state of affairs, and how belief can drive success at a job, irrespective of its truth or falsity. I wonder what fraction of people are genuinely better off with a paternalistic salesman than they would be with a perfect, economically rational buying process (e.g., if all cars sold exactly for list price, and you could comparison-shop online). I don’t think it’s high, but neither is it zero. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salesman-asked-how-i-owed-on-my-trade-in/754487.md?page=7)