# Car Salespeople **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867 "2010-04-12T18:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/21 "2010-04-13T21:20:43Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > You gotta love threads like these. Everyone either knows a master negotiater or is a master negotiater. > Just because you can “outlast” them or “walk out” doesn’t mean they’ll cave to your demands. They’re just as likely to say “Sorry, I can’t (or won’t) sell it for that price. See you later” and move on to the next customer. > And don’t hold your breath for them to call you back or chase you through the parking lot. Many dealers give a take-it-or-leave it final offer and if you leave it they really won’t care. I’m far from a master negotiator - I used to own Saturns. However, when we were looking for a used car, we had a price we were willing to pay. The dealer wouldn’t come down to it, so we walked, and actually went to eat at a restaurant next door which we had been to before but lost the location of. They called, alright, and we got our price. It is very instructive to be in a situation where you don’t want to buy at all. (Not cars.) I did this once for a vacuum cleaner salesman who came to my house, and once for a timeshare deal. It is rather astonishing at how much the price can go down if you keep saying no. I know cars aren’t nearly so overpriced, but most people don’t find the real bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/22 "2010-04-13T21:56:49Z")
I’ve posted this before, but I didn’t deal with any of this bs when I bought my car. I researched what the invoice was on the car, whether Honda at the time was a buyer’s or seller’s market (to see if they’d need to make deals or not), and what a fair amount to pay for the car would be. I researched which dealers had the specific car I wanted within 250 miles from me. Then I sent emails to the internet sales contact close to the end of the month when they’d be trying to hit their quotas. Told them I was definitely buying a car “this week” (in my case), I wanted “this” specific model and package, that I was contacting all the dealers in my area with that car, and that I wanted their best price. When I got the responses, I blew off the guys that didn’t even try and gave me a ridiculous price. The three that gave me aggressively good prices from the start? I went back to them each and said, “This guy is willing to give me x. How much are you willing to beat his price by?” The guy who gave me the best price (with no bs like doc fees) got my business. He asked me if I wanted their financing. I said it depended on what they offered. I got 2.9% for the term of my loan (which was much better than what I’d gotten on my own) thru Honda. All of this was done via email. All of it. I went down and signed the paperwork and drove off with my car. (Well, there was five minutes of “no, I’m not taking the extended warranty, not even for eighteen bucks a month”.) It took less than 45 minutes at the dealership. Don’t shop cars in person except to test drive cars. ETA: I paid $90 over invoice. That was for the floormats. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/23 "2010-04-13T22:14:31Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Just because you can “outlast” them or “walk out” doesn’t mean they’ll cave to your demands. They’re just as likely to say “Sorry, I can’t (or won’t) sell it for that price. See you later” and move on to the next customer. > And don’t hold your breath for them to call you back or chase you through the parking lot. Many dealers give a take-it-or-leave it final offer and if you leave it they really won’t care. This is my experience as well…but it usually only happens toward the end when you are getting down to the final price. Also, if you go to a dealership too far from your home area and they know this (and in a metro area ‘too far’ is not that many miles away), they will not take you seriously…assuming you are using them to keep your local one honest and wasting their time. ---
**Author:** ![mark\_mbusa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@mark\_mbusa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mark_mbusa)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/24 "2010-04-13T22:30:27Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I think both of these are true, but in any business you have someone who is held accountable for profit and loss, and it ain’t the salesmen. The MOD may have to sign off on deals. I am waiting for someone who has worked in the business to weigh in on it here. As negotiations can be heated or at least stressful at times, it helps a salesperson to work with a manager who can provide direction and clarity. ---
**Author:** ![AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/25 "2010-04-13T22:37:57Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > You gotta love threads like these. Everyone either knows a master negotiater or is a master negotiater. > Just because you can “outlast” them or “walk out” doesn’t mean they’ll cave to your demands. They’re just as likely to say “Sorry, I can’t (or won’t) sell it for that price. See you later” and move on to the next customer. > And don’t hold your breath for them to call you back or chase you through the parking lot. Many dealers give a take-it-or-leave it final offer and if you leave it they really won’t care. The point of my anecdote was more that if you put a signed check in someones hands, the effect of seeing that money, and the fact that the check is already made out and ‘ready to go’ does have a powerful effect on your negotiating position. In any case, IMHO you should know what you are willing to pay and offer it, and be ready to pass if they won’t meet your price. At worst you can try again in another month, maybe their sales will be down. Going back and forth ‘dickering’ over the price is a frustration that is better avoided. As for the ‘master negotiator’ in relation to my father, I gave his bona fides in sufficient detail that I think it makes a strong case that he was an exceptional negotiator. They do exist in the world, and not all of us are exaggerating when we say we have known one. My father was filled with human flaws, but 10 years after his death his reputation lives on in his (admittedly specialized) industry because of his skill as a salesman. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/26 "2010-04-14T00:20:33Z")
> [@AllFreedomUnlessDefyingScience](#): > > I’d like to proudly recount how my father dealt with this. He was a master salesman himself, having built up his own multi-million dollar business from nothing with a 9th grade education. When I was about 18 we went to buy me a a car. We checked the dealership, found one I liked, in the colors I liked. The salesman asked if he could help us, my father said we were interested in buying the car. He took out a checkbook and wrote out a check for how much he was willing to pay (a fair number, my father knew how to value things from his own experience) and signed it. The salesman stammered “but I’m afraid I can’t go that low” My father said, all right, turned to me and said “come on, lets go to the next dealership” All the while letting the salesman hold the signed check. He took it back, we left and got in the car and I started to put it in gear and he said “just wait 5 minutes”. Sure enough, in 2 minutes the salesman came out the door and said he had ‘talked to his manager’ and they would take the deal. Don’t you wish my dad was helping you shop for cars? 🙂 > > AllFree In my family, my mom is the MASTER NEGOTIATOR. She has no shame, she’ll tell the salesperson that her babies will starve if she has to pay $5.00 more. She does her homework, has her financing in order, but sometimes it’s embarrassing to sit with her because she’s such a pit bull. We all talk about the time Mom tried to bargain over a bake sale cake at our local church. We threatened to leave her and make her walk home if she didn’t spend the $10.00 full price. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/27 "2010-04-14T03:53:55Z")
> [@StuffLikeThatThere](#): > > People are expecting used car prices to be roughly the same as they were a year ago, when the dealers can’t even purchase used cars at those prices now, much less sell them at those prices. Cash For Clunkers at work? ---
**Author:** ![StuffLikeThatThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc8723/32.png) [@StuffLikeThatThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StuffLikeThatThere)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/28 "2010-04-14T04:42:36Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Cash For Clunkers at work? Yep. That’s definitely part of it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/29 "2010-04-14T12:10:45Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > ETA: I paid $90 over invoice. That was for the floormats. Aw, dude. You fell for the floormat scam?!? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/30 "2010-04-14T12:19:37Z")
All of this seems like a lot of work. I go online to Consumer Reports, enter the car and options I want, then get their price. Then I call local dealerships and tell them that CR number is the highest I’ll pay. Lowest price by tomorrow wins. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/31 "2010-04-14T13:44:22Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > All of this seems like a lot of work. I go online to Consumer Reports, enter the car and options I want, then get their price. Then I call local dealerships and tell them that CR number is the highest I’ll pay. Lowest price by tomorrow wins. This works? When I’ve done this, and even when I put in all Caps THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A PRICE. ANY RESPONSES WITHOUT A PRICE WILL BE IGNORED…you still get a: “Come on in and we’ll talk” response from every single freakin one of them… {Disclaimer - last time car shopped was 3-4 years ago - things may have changed} ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/32 "2010-04-14T14:02:07Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Aw, dude. You fell for the floormat scam?!? > > 😛 I know, I know. Lesson for next time. Arrive _prior_ to floormat installation. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/33 "2010-04-14T14:12:17Z")
Show the guy a check, made out to the dealership, signed, with your desired price. Tell him “I only brought one check.” Then be willing to be pleasant, and walk out if that doesn’t work. Unless you get ridiculous about the amount, you will eventually get your car. Ideally you should have done all your price info checking, and set your deal at an achievable, but good level for you. If he doesn’t want it, there probably is someone who does. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/34 "2010-04-14T14:59:18Z")
> [@StuffLikeThatThere](#): > > A great deal depends on the dealership. My husband sells cars for a living. At the places he’s worked, he’s had a varying degree of control over the price at which he can actually sell the car, and a varying degree of information about the money that the dealership actually has in the car. I don’t think he’s ever gone to watch TV instead of talking to the manager. Pretty sure he’s gone outside to cool off to keep from yelling at people, though. > > Currently, car-deal maneuvers are easily as frustrating for the salespeople as they are for the customers. The supply of both new and used vehicles has dropped significantly. Demand has dropped a little (people are driving their cars longer), but not to the same degree. So demand is up, relative to supply. Accordingly, prices are much less flexible. The same techniques that people have been using for years may not work. This results in a lot of ticked off potential customers. People are expecting used car prices to be roughly the same as they were a year ago, when the dealers can’t even purchase used cars at those prices now, much less sell them at those prices. > > I’ve heard a lot of people complaining about salespeople lately, and how they’re not willing to negotiate. Believe me, they want to sell cars. They’re on straight commission, and they’re hurting (my husband’s averaged income over the first three months of this year was below federal poverty guidelines for our three-person household). But the car market is going through a big adjustment, and it’s going to take a while for everything to settle down into the new normal. It’s probably not going to be just like it was. We’ll all just have to get used to it. > > Not necessarily. My husband wrote up a deal after hours one night, got back the next day, and realized he’d overcharged the customer $500. He called them that morning, before they’d even realized the mistake themselves. He cannot be the only salesman in the country that’s done this. He’s a good guy, but he’s not the second coming of the Christ. > > At a dealership in a small town, a great deal of business is repeat business. The salesmen want their customers to be happy so they’ll come back, and send all their cousins. Find yourself a dealer in a rural/small town area that’s been in business a long time. You’re more likely to have a good experience there, IMO. Wow: 33 posts and this is the only one that approaches non-opinion territory. If you haven’t worked in the business, then it’s quite likely you’re all talking out of your asses. Yes, some of that tactic goes on, but the sales manager usually controls what that vehicle will sell for and gives final approval for the deal. When I sold vehicles, I had no idea what the dealer’s bottom line was. While this may be unusual, not having all the information is not that uncommon for salesmen. Even if you have some idea about how low the dealer can go, there is no way to keep the stats for a large inventory in your head. Try this: go through your house and assign arbitrary prices to 20 different items. Come back in a day or two and try to regurgitate those prices. Now imagine all of those same items with two dozen different options in every combination imaginable. We carried an inventory sheet that had the dealer’s asking price, but that was it. We had to run all offers past the sales manager, and he had to approve the deal. There are far more effective ways to manipulate a customer than to run some tired old ploy that everyone thinks they know about. And most people don’t even know they’ve been played. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/35 "2010-04-14T15:14:52Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > In my family, my mom is the MASTER NEGOTIATOR > > (beat) > > she’ll tell the salesperson that her babies will starve if she has to pay $5.00 more. ha… hahahahaha. MASTER NEGOTIATOR? hahahaha. ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/36 "2010-04-14T15:49:07Z")
Thanks for all the responses. Seems that there is some level of actual discussion, but a fair amount of posturing, based on the responses here. [EDIT: Chefguy’s post certainly indicates it could be more discussion than posturing. Interesing.] I went in last Saturday to a local dealership with my mind set on a car model that I’m interested in. the goal was just test drive and determine which options I wanted. The salesman helped me out and we figured out that what I wanted was available on the lot. Afterward, he discussed cost to me and financing. I had already discussed this with my bank, but he offered me 0% for the entire loan period which is hard to beat. Without any attempt at negotiating (beyond telling him repeatedly that I wasn’t planning to purchase for another week or two), he dropped the price nearly 2 grand. That effort required 6 trips into the managers office, the last of which verifying that he’d hold the price for 1 week as long as no one else came along and buy the car before then. Which is what prompted the question in the first place. Anyway, Thanks for the great responses to my first GQ post 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/37 "2010-04-14T15:53:52Z")
If you want to see how that price fairs to what others are paying go to [edmunds.com](http://edmunds.com) new car pricing. Just make sure you know the exact model and what options it comes with. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/38 "2010-04-14T16:03:41Z")
> [@Roulette](#): > > Thanks for all the responses. Seems that there is some level of actual discussion, but a fair amount of posturing, based on the responses here. [EDIT: Chefguy’s post certainly indicates it could be more discussion than posturing. Interesing.] > > I went in last Saturday to a local dealership with my mind set on a car model that I’m interested in. the goal was just test drive and determine which options I wanted. The salesman helped me out and we figured out that what I wanted was available on the lot. Afterward, he discussed cost to me and financing. I had already discussed this with my bank, but he offered me 0% for the entire loan period which is hard to beat. > > Without any attempt at negotiating (beyond telling him repeatedly that I wasn’t planning to purchase for another week or two), he dropped the price nearly 2 grand. That effort required 6 trips into the managers office, the last of which verifying that he’d hold the price for 1 week as long as no one else came along and buy the car before then. > > Which is what prompted the question in the first place. > > Anyway, Thanks for the great responses to my first GQ post 🙂 Many of the old practices are now against the law. Salesmen used to take the customer’s trade-in keys to have the mechanic check out the vehicle, then throw the keys up on the roof and claim they were misplaced. This kept the customer on the lot far longer. Or they would park his car back in a corner and hem it in with other cars, then claim the guy who has the keys went home sick. Any salesman today who uses worn out tactics like “what would it take to put you in this car today” type nonsense is not going to be making his mortgage payments on a regular basis. People are far too attuned to clumsy sales tactics that were invented as far back as the 1920s, and are offended by what are seen as cheap tricks. As I mentioned before, there is sophisticated training available to sales people that focuses on the customer selling himself the vehicle rather than the other way around. It’s more honest and more straight-forward, but in the end it’s the customer who makes his deal. The sales manager tactic described by many in this thread makes no sense, if you scrutinize it. A tactic like that would be too easily exposed by merely talking to the manager himself. Nobody is being held prisoner in that little room. Accompany the guy to the manager’s office, if you want to. Hell, our manager was on the floor, sitting behind a glass partition, easily accessible to anybody who wanted to talk to him. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/39 "2010-04-14T16:10:37Z")
I highly recommend anyone interested in how the car sales business works to read this kind of long, but highly worthwhile, article about a guy who tried out a couple car sales jobs. [Life as a Used Car Salesman](http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/page001.html) It’s very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![tallcoldone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@tallcoldone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tallcoldone)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867/40 "2010-04-14T16:22:58Z")
Here’s an interesting insight into the world of car sales from [Edmunds.com](http://Edmunds.com): [http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html](http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-salespeople/535867.md?page=3)