Also, not having a trade-in isn’t so bad. There are three variable things in a car purchase:
An average buyer is negotiating all three at the same time, and it’s very easy to get screwed over because a gain in one just goes into a loss on another. If you already have your loan lined up, and you don’t have a trade-in, you’re only negotiating one thing. Which is good because it’s simple.
I have no trade-in and the financing is arranged, so the only variable left is the price of the car. Is it really true that a dealer can’t/won’t go below invoice + $500? I had heard invoice + $200 from my father, a purchaser of many cars; but he lives in a small town and is a preferred customer of long standing, whereas I’ll be a stranger at a strange dealership.
I really do mean to make one offer and stick to it, so although I don’t want to get taken, I also want to offer something they can live with.
Just another vote for the “dealer rides with you in the front” category. Happens to me on every test drive; the dealer goes along and talks up the car while I’m driving.
As for buying and dealing, I generally suck as those. My best rules are to never do a trade-in (since that makes you more “desperate” to buy a new car), and to have no qualms about making a ridiculously low offer. I got a nice IMO deal on my last car because I told the dealer that I’d walk out the door if he couldn’t meet our price, and I did – only to have him chase me out to the lot and agree. 
Haggling for the bottom line price is almost an art form. I can’t do it. My husband is an artiste, though, as is my MIL. Must be that eastern European heritage.
You have to be, in my observation, patient, persistent and calm. And prepared to walk away. And not be afraid that the sales person “won’t like you.” He doesn’t care about you or your feelings one way or the other, just what’s in your wallet. Once when we were shopping for a car, the dealer and my husband had been negotiating for what seemed eons. Finally he said to me, “Come on, let’s go. The price is just too high.” As he had predicted earlier, we got exactly three steps toward the door when the salesman called us back.
Of course, my MIL takes the cake on dickering with a used car salesman. Shortly after she had been widowed, she needed to get another car. She went back to the same person her late husband had bought their previous car from. After the usual pleasantries, family talk, how wonderful each one’s children were, how expensive things were getting these days, etc., she unloaded with her ultimate weapon. “The last car you sold us, it had so many problems. My dear husband had to put so much work into it. In fact, he worked himself to death on that car, and that’s why I am a widow today.” She got her price.
I don’t know if this is an option for you, but being the renter of many cars, I found the best way to decide if I like a car is to usually rent one for a weekend. By the end of it you’ll probably know if you like it. When we bought our volvo, we bought it, then test drove it. Actually they had to connect the battery and take it out of the showroom so I could drive it and test the seat height position. But generally renting a car beyond a ten minute test drive is a good idea, if you have the time.
Ask if they’ll let you take a model home for a couple of days. GM let me take a Malibu home for two working days so I could decide if I liked driving it during rush hour (I did). I know that’s a general policy with GM, but not whether other companies/dealerships do.
You should also visit Kelly Blue Book’s web site, there’s a wealth of info. there. I’d
recommend doing a Carfax check, even on a new vehicle. Remember all the flooding
there was in the south and on the east coast in the past few months. It’s not unheard
of that new cars get damaged and are “reconditioned” to be sold as new in another
part of the country. Of course, if you should buy used, it’s imperative that you get the
vehicle inspected by a third party mechanic and not someone referred to you by the
seller.
You might want to check into your state’s “Lemon Law” before you buy, just in case.
Under most lemon laws you can withhold payment, as a last resort, only if you secure
financing through the dealer. On the other hand, financing may be cheaper through
your bank, or credit union. You’ll have to weigh the pros and cons.
If they let you drive the car on your own, you’ll need to be covered by your own insurance. Secondly, be sure to try an emergency stop - but do it somewhere safe! Thirdly, get a second opinion from a friend or colleague.
He rode in the back when my wife went with me. I’ve ridden with salesmen, and without. Depends on the dealership and how busy they are.
Try to stress the car in ways besides driving crazy. We test drove an Escort once. When we turned on the air conditioner full blast, the thing almost stopped. That did it for that car.
I’ve always paid cash myself.
Don’t worry about them - worry about you. When we bought a used rental car, we decided how much we were willing to pay (not an unreasonable amount.) The salesman said it was too low, we said fine, and we walked. When we got home there was a message on our machine telling us our prices wasn’t too low anymore. Be reasonable, but be willing to walk.
If you plan on talking financing, bring a calculator. One dealer was trying to get us to take his great financing deal. I was able to work out some of the real costs in my head, which stopped him cold. I think looking at the numbers your way would give you an advantage.
And Johnny, could you tell me why every Ford dealership I’ve gone to for 20 years has been full of assholes? I used to drive Fords, but they drove me away.
“Turn it on, wind it up, blow it out” - Ronnie and the Daytonas, Little GTO .
On a test drive of a used car at a dealership, drive as close to the limits as you feel comfortable with. Good tests include:
-Slide it around an empty parking lot and see what happens on turn-in, mid-corner, and corner exit under power, under trailing throttle, and under braking. You want a predictable car with high enough limits that you have something in reserve for an emergency maneuver. Switch any stability control off for this.
-Do a full-throttle takeoff from a stoplight. You want something that can get you in front of another car in case you ended up in the wrong lane for what you need to do at the next light.
-Do a full-power blast from 50 to 100 miles per hour. If this takes more than you feel you can find the room to do safely then the car isn’t fast enough. The faster you’re going, the less time you’re exposed to danger when you’re passing somebody.
-Turn the stereo and climate control off and drive down a bumpy, hilly, twisty road. If you hear rattling and squeaking, then the body might not be stiff enough to prevent the car from shaking itself apart over the next 150,000 miles.
-Get into a clear area and stand on the brakes from 100 miles per hour (see above point about not buying a car that can’t reach what’ll be a normal highway speed in a few years). Do the brakes fade? Does the car try to drive itself off the road crown? Are there any other quirks?
-Does the gearlever move smoothly from gear to gear? Does the clutch slip? Is there any slack in the steering?
-What does it look like under the hood? Are there any cracks in the hoses? Are the belts properly tensioned? Is there water in the oil? Does it look like the oil’s been freshly changed to hide something? If so, is there oil in the coolant? Are the CV joint boots cracked? Are the brake discs worn unevenly? Has the tire tread worn evenly? How does the insulation look on the ignition wires? Is there any corrosion on the battery terminals? Do the shocks work? Does the car move smoothly up and down when you push on the bumper?
If you’re trying out a new car, there are a couple changes. You shouldn’t have to do an underhood inspection. Ask the dealer if you can try their demonstrator or a pre-owned car that’s the same model - explain that you intend to give the car an honest shakedown on the test drive and don’t want somebody else’s new car getting broken in improperly. If the salesman comes along, ignore him completely. Just tune him out. You should definitely not let him influence or dictate the route. If he doesn’t want to ride along for the parking lot testing, then he can watch from the edge of the lot. If he gets scared during the test drive, remind him that the seats are Scotchgarded (they are, right?).
Well, baby’s first test drive has come and gone.
I didn’t perceive any hard sell. Partly this may be because I made clear up front that this was a preliminary visit and I would be testing, not buying, today; also it turns out that the salespeople at this dealership don’t work on commission, so presumably there’s less pressure (?). There was no mention by either of us of a trade-in, financing, etc.
The salesman did accompany me and had a predetermined route in mind (including highway driving and a sharp turn, among other common driving experiences), but I wanted some bumpier streets and asked to deviate from the route…he had no problem with that, and on the second car volunteered a few even bumpier streets he knew. He was a little chatty about the standard safety features at first, but after a few bored “uh-huhs” from me (I’ve done my homework and already know the safety features), we either stayed quiet or made small talk. I didn’t get the impression he was trying to distract me.
All in all, a good experience. The only glitch wasn’t the salesperson’s fault…I’d thought I’d be driving Toyotas and Hondas both, at sister dealerships, but the Honda people actually didn’t know I was coming and were busy, as the charming phrase goes, “servicing other customers.” So I’ll be driving again later in the week. If anything new and interesting happens, I’ll let you know. Thanks again, everyone, for all the good advice and anecdotes.
How I buy a used car (slight hijack from test drive advice)…
Research the websites (edmunds for pricing and figuring out what kind I want, then local dealer websites to find a specific car I want in stock), then write down the true market price from edmunds, with a list of each option price (to check off when I see the actual options at the dealer). I use the edmunds pricing since it seems pretty accurate. Usually I will get down to a list of 5 or so at this point. I also then order the Carfax “unlimited searches for a month for 30 bucks” deal, so I don’t get any big problems. I did have a negative Carfax report once on a car, and the dealer claimed to have no knowledge about (it was a salvaged title).
I then go to the dealer, and tell them the car I want to look at. I got suckered on my last car when the car wasn’t there anymore, and I got “shopped” to a different one, but it worked out positively in the end. I just ask for a test drive, they get a copy of my driver’s license, and I can then take the car for as long as I want (my first car, I took it home overnight). During this “test drive” I do as many of the things that I can remember being mentioned above. I also then take the car to my mechanic, to have him look it over (very important IMO, also helps a LOT during negotiations if anything negative comes up).
I repeat the above paragraph as often as necessary until the wife and I both like the car, then I will go in and negotiate. I usually start at least $500-$750 below the edmunds true market price, depending on the make/model (which is still in the area of $3-5k below the sticker price). The salesman goes into his, “you got to be kidding me” speech, I then calmly have him make a counter offer. Repeat until I get the lowest price I can (I go up 100 bucks, dealer price goes down 1000, etc.) The last car I got for about $400 below the true market price.
I’m still learning, but I usually enjoy going car shopping (other than the fact that I’m usually desperate at that point since our last car met an untimely death). I probably could negotiate a bit harder, but I think I have made good progress on each of our three car purchases.
I’ve heard (urban legend perhaps?) that they photo copy your license to do a credit check. Since multiple credit checks decrease your credit rating, you shouldn’t let them do it. Walking away or driving away in your old car is actually a really good strategy. I also called a neighboring dealership to get their offer (I’ll come down and buy it from you if the price is right) and used that price at the closer dealership (match this and I won’t drive there for a car) to get the best price on the market at the time. Also, stepping outside to make a call on your cell phone after you see their offer makes them nervous (I called my dad, not the other dealership). They’ll offer to let you use their phones, but I preferred to make them nervous.
I’ve owned and testdriven many vehicles over the past 15 years and the one thing I’ve never been able to do with a new car was take a 200 mile test drive, and I’ve never been happy with a new car as a result, with the exception of my 1998 Mustang.
I’ve done good test drives and been happy with the cars until I took them on a long trip and after 2 or 3 hours of driving, my back is killing me. My '94 Saturn, which I did a 90 mile commute every day in was painful. The '05 PT Cruiser convertable isn’t much better.
The '98 Mustang was the only new car that didn’t cause back pain…the '01 Mustang which had what appeared to be the same seats was really painful.
My 1982 Chrysler Cordoba had the double cushioned seats (like a couch) and I could drive that car for hours with no pain whatsoever, but I tended to fall asleep at the wheel.
They should have some sort of machine at the dealership that you could drive a car up on and it would simulate highway type bumps and you could sit in it for an hour or so. I’d be willing to spend half a day doing that to find a car that’s comfortable.
I sure hope not. When the salesman took my license to copy, I thought of this and yelled after him “No credit check!” He said it was illegal to do that without my permission, and I chose to believe him. Needless to say, if I find out otherwise the dealership will lose my business.