# Car Troubleshooting: What the hell is wrong this thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 1, 2019, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987 "2019-08-01T10:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/21 "2019-08-01T17:44:56Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Are you ready for something dumb? > > I have a friend that has a Challenger that was doing something like this. It was super new and shouldn’t have had any real issues whatsoever. > > Turns out after 2500 dollars at the dealership mice had eaten some wiring around the bottom of the engine where the transmission bell housing meets up with the transmission. The wires had the copper exposed and would occasionally short out on the engine or tranny and ground out whatever they were doing. One was the torque converter lockup solenoid wiring, the other was something that ran to the ECU and when it would momentarily short out, the dashboard of his car would light up like the Starship Enterprise (60s version) and then it would go back to normal. > > My mom’s Prius used to do the same thing, it turned out it was mice eating at the semi-edible environmentally friendly wire insulation that Toyota thought would be a good idea to locate in a place that you had to take the engine out to get to. I don’t know if Chrysler is using the same type of wire insulation or not, but mice freaking LOVE it, and snakes love mice, so her brand new Prius smelled like mouse urine and had a few snakes in it about two months after she got it. > > Fun times. > > It would seem to me if the ECU didn’t store a OBD code in its buffer when these events happen, I would check the wiring that feeds the ECU first. Sometimes the harness can get a little loose too. > > Best if luck to you and your Hellcat. Holy shit, man. You know what!? This area has a huge [marder](https://jalopnik.com/how-cute-ferret-like-animals-cause-germany-65-million-1788013196) problem. You might be on to something. This is at least something I can ask the mechanic to please look for and rule out. Suggestions from the other forum have been to monitor the battery voltage next time and to also switch into neutral and see the effect in order to further isolate the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/22 "2019-08-01T17:45:53Z")
Multiple misfire. Could be from a variety of causes. Very odd that a code is not being set. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/23 "2019-08-01T17:47:03Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > So what’s the fuel consumption at 160? You can see the needle move. lol. Total gas mileage isn’t super horrible. I work 60km away, which takes about 35 minutes of driving. So I drive the car a little over an hour each day; about 120km round trip, plus incidental mileage around my work. I almost never drive it anywhere else. I fill up the tank about every 4.5 days. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/24 "2019-08-01T18:01:52Z")
My wild ass guess: It looks like the car is going into a limp home mode, which should throw a code. I wonder if the PCM isn’t going into a diagnostic mode where it will put the car in that mode, but not throw a code as it’s just a diagnostic test? Something, maybe faulty wiring, could be triggering that diagnostic mode? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/25 "2019-08-01T18:09:22Z")
I have to say that I really appreciate people who love cars, love driving, and love American Muscle. I do not understand people who view a car as just a utility. Crunchable, recyclable, jelly bean shaped cars, that no one will ever keep longer than a few years and never to become classics. I only live 11 miles away from work and I often wish it was farther away, because of my love for driving. And roads, god what good roads you have! ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/26 "2019-08-01T18:10:28Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > So, while I don’t accelerate as extremely as seen in the video, but I normally drive 130-160mph on my way to and from work. In light traffic, I might do up to 190mph, but closer to 150 is normal. I always thought that at speeds like 150 miles per hour and up … that even so much as rolling over a pencil could throw your car off the road and lead to a very dangerous accident. The Autobahn is scrupulously free of pebbles, tree branches, and such? No chunks of rubber thrown off from the tires of big trucks? And I may assume that the Autobahn is set up so that you see signage for ramps and such many (many!) km in advance? At those speeds, there’s no last-second lane change as you suddenly realize you’re going to miss your exit. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/27 "2019-08-01T18:24:41Z")
[quote=“bordelond, post:26, topic:837987”] I always thought that at speeds like 150 miles per hour and up … that even so much as rolling over a pencil could throw your car off the road and lead to a very dangerous accident. The Autobahn is scrupulously free of pebbles, tree branches, and such? No chunks of rubber thrown off from the tires of big trucks? [quote] The autobahn is generally free of large debris–tire chunks, wood, or branches and such would be promptly removed by the police or road workers. Once I saw a police stop an entire three lanes of autobahn to remove a piece of wood that was off the shoulder and not even on the road itself. As far as pebbles and that sort of thing, I don’t think it’s any more free of that sort of thing than any American highway. My father used to say the same thing about driving that fast–“At that speed even a pebble will cause you to lose control” he’d say. I’ve come to find that it’s just not true. > [@](#): > > And I may assume that the Autobahn is set up so that you see signage for ramps and such many (many!) km in advance? At those speeds, there’s no last-second lane change as you suddenly realize you’re going to miss your exit. Signs for the exits usually start 1 km back, and then there are signs with hashmarks every 100m starting about 300-500 meters prior to the exit. And that’s usually the start of the exit. You’d think that the autobahn would have long deceleration lanes prior to the actual exit. Quite the opposite, in fact. The autobahn is notorious for extremely short and often nonexistent deceleration lanes. It’s important to slow down before exiting. In fact, I believe the Interstate system in the United States is much more capable of handling autobahn speeds than the autobahn itself. It’s the strict driving rules that keeps everything safe over here, not the road design. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/28 "2019-08-01T18:55:26Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It feels like it’s running on 4 cylinders or something. “Eco mode” is running on 4 cylinders. Maybe your car is going into eco mode when it shouldn’t. It should only go into eco mode at very light throttle. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/29 "2019-08-01T19:01:39Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > The feeling of power loss is a bit hard too explain. The throttle feels less responsive, like and the engine just doesn’t act right. It feels like the engine is gargling fuel instead of swallowing it, and it doesn’t want to move as fast. It feels like it’s running on 4 cylinders or something. The brakes also feel mushier, like there isn’t as much hydraulic pressure in the brakes, but that part might just be paranoia. The “mushy brakes” feeling doesn’t always present itself when the car throws these fits, so I’m not sure if I’m just imagining that or not. Maybe half the time. Regarding running on 4 cylinders, for a moment I almost wondered if there was a lifer issue and it was backfiring or engine braking. > [@](#): > > Transmission fluid is normal and no burning smell. In fact, there is no noticeable smell at all from the car when it does this. No temperature rising in either transmission or engine. No smoke and no smells. Probably a good sign, thought it’s going to be tough to see if the fuel smells rich while you’re driving. > [@](#): > > The car has the ability to monitor all of this already. In the second video, I managed to switch on those gauges before I started filming. It will show 4 at a time, and I preselected Air/Fuel Ration, Horsepower, Current Gear, and Boost Pressure as I figured those might be the most relevant to the problem. I tried to keep them all in view while filming. I’m sure it has the ability to display quite a bit of user friendly information. But I’d be surprised if you could see things like fuel trims (different than air/fuel ration) or O2 voltage. But I could certainly be wrong, I’ve never even been in one of those cars. > [@](#): > > I think it’s definitely electronics related. The mechanic tells me that he checked the PCM and it’s fine. I think it’s faulty. Of the ECM is faulty, I have to assume it would start throwing codes or the car would be having more problems than just some odd noises. > [@](#): > > Misfiring was my original thought, and I haven’t completely given up on that thought. In fact, when I first brought this to the mechanic, that’s what I told him it was doing–misfiring. He told me two things: (1) There are no misfire codes in the computer (2) The Hellcat computer will automatically prevent (or respond to) a misfire. So I said that the computer must be faulty. He assured me that he checked the computer and there’s nothing wrong with it. If it is misfiring, that should have been enough misfires to turn on the CEL, but even if it’s not, the misfire data is still stored in the computer and easily accessible. > [@](#): > > I have a feeling the final solution is going to be to have Dodge replace the entire PCM. I need to rule out other issues, though. The last time I went to the mechanic with that thought, I left feeling sheepish. Hell, if it’s under warranty, let them. But I’d probably attempt to rule out other things first, unless the ECU going bad is a common problem on this car. > [@](#): > > Would a wheel bearing problem only be noticeable one every couple weeks, though? The mechanic said he checked the electronic suspension and found no issues, but never specifically mentioned wheel bearings. I’m not sure if they were checked. There is no noticeable difference while turning, though. I’m not sure if the noise would only be noticeable once in a while. The few times I’ve had to fix them, they were either fine one minute, not so much, or they would have a low pitched groaning for a little while until we replaced them. If that’s your problem, maybe they’re just starting to go bad. > [@jz78817](#): > > if the brakes feel different then it could be losing manifold vacuum (the power brake booster uses engine vacuum.) > > the electronic throttle control might be screwing up; all cars today are “Throttle by wire” where the accelerator pedal only connects to sensors. the PCM controls a motor on the throttle body that opens and closes the throttle based on the pedal position and rate of change. if the throttle control motor is doing something that is in conflict with what it’s supposed to be doing, I could see all manner of odd behavior happening. > > edit: if [this is one of the warning lights which came on,](https://www.driverknowledge.com/wp-content/uploads/Electronic-Throttle.png) it would indicate a fault with the electronic throttle control. > [@bump](#): > > FYI, you can get bluetooth OBD2 scanners off Amazon for about $15 that work perfectly well with smartphones running apps like “Torque”. Yes, I have a bluedriver that does a really nice job. Last year I bought a bi-directional Autel as well. > [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Are you ready for something dumb? How about this for dumb. Last year or the year before I could not get one of my trucks started. It cranked fine, there was spark, there was fuel, the fuel was at the correct pressure, the injectors were getting their pulses. After months of playing with this, I was getting so fed up I was going to, out of frustration, siphon some gas out and set it [the gas] on first just to make sure the stupid stuff was still flammable. What came out was a translucent white liquid that quickly separated into gas and water. There was probably 4 or 5 gallons of water and 15 gallons of gas. It took A LONG time to get all that gas out. One more point, Bear, don’t get too fixated on one issue. If you convince yourself that it’s a specific thing, absent any real evidence, it makes it easy to start throwing parts at it instead of confirming your suspicions are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/30 "2019-08-01T19:42:01Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I always thought that at speeds like 150 miles per hour and up … that even so much as rolling over a pencil could throw your car off the road and lead to a very dangerous accident. The Autobahn is scrupulously free of pebbles, tree branches, and such? No chunks of rubber thrown off from the tires of big trucks? > > And I may assume that the Autobahn is set up so that you see signage for ramps and such many (many!) km in advance? At those speeds, there’s no last-second lane change as you suddenly realize you’re going to miss your exit. I lived in Germany for four years. German drivers can’t get a license until age 18 and go though a pretty extensive training. That said, whenever there is an accident on one of the highways, it’s usually spectacular. I saw a Porsche disintegrate into just so much shrapnel. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/31 "2019-08-01T20:23:42Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > “Eco mode” is running on 4 cylinders. Maybe your car is going into eco mode when it shouldn’t. It should only go into eco mode at very light throttle. IIRC the SRT versions of the Hemi- Hellcat included- do not have the cylinder deactivation hardware. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/32 "2019-08-01T20:40:17Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > > [@bordelond](#): > > > > And I may assume that the Autobahn is set up so that you see signage for ramps and such many (many!) km in advance? At those speeds, there’s no last-second lane change as you suddenly realize you’re going to miss your exit. > > Signs for the exits usually start 1 km back, and then there are signs with hashmarks every 100m starting about 300-500 meters prior to the exit. And that’s usually the start of the exit. Sounds like if you’re on the Autobahn … you’d better know exactly where you’re going and what exit to take well in advance. Deceleration lanes aren’t necessarily necessary, but early signage helps out-of-towners a ton. Some sections of the U.S. Interstate system would be fine at 200+ kmph. Others are too rough and cracked for even 100 kmph. And the U.S. system – at least as far as road maintenance goes – is really 50 separate systems. Some places are maintained very well … other places, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/33 "2019-08-02T01:18:39Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > That is really bizarre. I’m wondering if it isn’t a computerized electronics problem. The fact that it “resets” to normal gives me that suspicion. Were Hellcats equipt with a automatic setting that makes it sound more "muscle car"ish? I know some cars were and if so I think you may be right. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/34 "2019-08-02T02:43:18Z")
I’m trying to think of a car that would need any less help in sounding like a muscle car than a Hellcat. Unless **Bear\_Nenno** bought the ‘Gilding the Lily’ option. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/35 "2019-08-02T03:04:03Z")
I agree with Joey on the torque converter being the issue. The wrong trans fluid can cause this. I doubt on a new car such as your that it would have the wrong fluid but if all else fails maybe request that they change it on warranty. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/36 "2019-08-02T16:03:28Z")
You have an expensive performance car under factory warranty, take advantage of it. Tell the dealer it isn’t acceptable for a top-of-the-line Hellcat to have an issue like that, and it’s a safety issue if it starts shaking like a blown tire at high speeds. If you had warning lights there should be codes to read from the ECU, if the codes don’t reveal the exact problem they should at least provide a clue. This is a $60,000+ car, tell them if you’re ever buying a Chrysler vehicle again they need to make it right. Stay on the dealer, make friends with the service manager and/or mechanics and keep gently pushing until it’s fixed. Or if the dealer doesn’t seem willing/able, go to another dealer or call corporate. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/37 "2019-08-03T02:59:02Z")
I’m a fan of going fast where legal, but when you have a known issue that might involve anything from brakes to wheel bearings, I’d take it slow. A locked wheel or loss of brake power can be dealt with at 60 mph. At 190 mph… not so much. Be safe in a car that isn’t working at 100%. ---
**Author:** ![neutro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@neutro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutro)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/38 "2019-08-03T03:19:08Z")
I dunno, car would cruise comfortable at 150mph+ all day long if it was legal. Speed limits haven’t kept up with technology. Driving at 60mph seems super slow. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/39 "2019-08-03T03:26:13Z")
> [@neutro](#): > > I dunno, car would cruise comfortable at 150mph+ all day long if it was legal. Speed limits haven’t kept up with technology. Driving at 60mph seems super slow. Not when you have an undiagnosed problem with your car that manifests itself as potential problems with shimmy, braking, etc. What if it’s an early warning of a major failure? Do you want to experience that at 150 mph? ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987/40 "2019-08-03T04:48:57Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > If the dealer doesn’t seem willing/able, go to another dealer or call corporate. Incidentally, how many Dodge dealerships are there in Germany? Who works on or even looks at this car over there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/car-troubleshooting-what-the-hell-is-wrong-this-thing/837987.md?page=3)