# Carbs after exercise **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 8, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140 "2012-10-08T22:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/21 "2012-10-17T22:26:15Z")
I have to eat carbs (esp fructose) after exercise. If I do not, when I go to bed at night my liver glycogen gets low and I can’t sleep (my body ends up flooding with adrenaline until I pass out from exhaustion at 3am). I doubt most people have this problem, and as long as I eat fructose I can sleep fine. But it took me over a year to figure out what was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/22 "2012-10-18T01:01:45Z")
> [@Michael63129](#): > > I’m pretty sure what **Winnie** means is getting carbs from actual food, which has other nutrients in it, which is really the whole argument against eating stuff like soda (if your body needs extra energy, doesn’t it also need more vitamins and minerals, especially since you lose some in sweat and need others for repair?). Even one of those “bars” discussed here would be better than a can of soda because they do put other nutrients in them, and why only ingest carbs when you also need protein (caffeine also doesn’t agree well with me)? The short answer to this is no. The question in the OP is about carbs post workout as it relates to recovery. More specifically, this relates to a 20min window after a workout in which the body needs glucose to rebuild muscle glycogen. The numbers I quoted above are based on optimal recovery, screwing with that, and slowing things down will lead to slower recovery and impact your next workout. After that 20min window, your body is going need protein, as well as fat to rebuild muscle tissue. And this is where we get into “real food” and with it all the other nutrients. At this point we’re now talking about post workout meals, as well as pre-workout meals. Two things to keep in mind here are that following a workout I’m not always able to stomach much in the way of real food. It can be a chore just to finish my sport-drink. For me personally coke is easy to drink. After that it’s small snacks, then eventually real food. The other thing is where you happen to be at the end of your workout. If you drove to the gym are you planning to have a little picnic before you leave? Or would you rather just nibble on a “bar” while you drive home? Most of my longer training rides are outside of the city so I need something easy to eat on the way home. Bars work for that purpose, as to bananas and cookies and snickers bars and DQ… Lastly, keep in mind that your brain is glucose dependent, so following a workout the rest of your body is going to be pulling as much glucose out of your blood as it can. This can lead to dizziness and post-workout crankiness. Which is why it’s important to keep your blood sugar up following a workout until things stabilize a bit and you get get real food in you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/23 "2012-10-18T01:13:10Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > … The question in the OP is about carbs post workout as it relates to recovery. More specifically, this relates to a 20min window after a workout in which the body needs glucose to rebuild muscle glycogen. … Not necessarily. [Official position statements](http://www.wanttoknownow.com/pdfs/Nutrition%20and%20athletic%20performance.pdf) emphasize not only that immediate replacement but continuing over time. > [@](#): > > If an athlete is glycogen-depleted after exercise, a carbohydrate intake of 1.5 g/kg body weight during the first 30 minutes and again every 2 hours for 4 to 6 hours will be adequate to replace glycogen stores. … ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/24 "2012-10-18T01:23:59Z")
[This article](http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/are-postworkout-carbs-necessary/) is very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/25 "2012-10-18T05:39:18Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > [This article](http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/are-postworkout-carbs-necessary/) is very interesting. A small issue I have with that article is that in the last paragraph, they say that carbs eaten after exercise can’t be converted into fat, which I think is misleading - because they WILL be converted into fat if you eat more than your body needs. Also, I came across [this](http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-macro-manager-pre-post-workout-shakes.html) article which supports my thinking about eating before exercise as well as after; eating before working out has benefits ranging from immediately available amino acids to help fuel muscles to increased muscle protein synthesis and calorie burn to reductions in cortisol (they only mention protein, but carbs are probably important too). It probably also reduces the importance of eating fast-acting protein, as long as you allow enough time for it to digest. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/26 "2012-10-18T12:59:29Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I have to eat carbs (esp fructose) after exercise. If I do not, when I go to bed at night my liver glycogen gets low and I can’t sleep (my body ends up flooding with adrenaline until I pass out from exhaustion at 3am). > > I doubt most people have this problem, and as long as I eat fructose I can sleep fine. But it took me over a year to figure out what was wrong. How the hell did you figure that out? I’m honestly curious. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/27 "2012-10-18T16:06:08Z")
Thing is, even though I quote the official positions and all, I am not so convinced how much it matters given a reasonable baseline diet. Protein and muscle mass effects from timing and type I buy into. But I tend to think that so long as I am eating some fruits, veggies, whole grains, etc., along the way during the day, that my muscle glycogen stores will fill back up adequately by the time of my next work out, at least adequately enough to perform with the same level of intensity. And if they _occasionally_ don’t I don’t see that as a bad thing since my body will then get some experience working off of low glycogen conditions as well. No, I am not so serious as to intentionally aim to train glycogen depleted, but the concept of [“train low, compete high”](http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2009/11/evidence-for-doubling-training-in.html) for glycogen, that is at least occasionally training in a glycogen depleted state, is one taken seriously by some. > [@](#): > > Some researchers have suggested that training in a fatigued state may enhance subsequent adaptations. It has been found that training in a glycogen depleted state enhances gene transcription of several markers of training adaptation (Yeo et al. 2008, Hansen et al. 2005). Low muscle glycogen amplifies the activation of signalling proteins (in particular AMPK and MAPK for those who are interested). Both of these proteins help control gene transcription, which ultimately result in adaptations like increased mitochondria. … occasional training in a depleted state may lead to increased adaptations. I feel the need to keep some healthy carbs coming in along the way, and beginning immediately with my after work-out recovery nutrition, only because if I do not I get very tired several hours after a work out which I speculate is from a relative hypoglycemia reactive to exercise as my muscles suck up glucose to replenish the glycogen whether I take much in or not. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/28 "2012-10-18T16:09:35Z")
I just got back from Baltimore, so I read the OP as _Crabs after exercise_. If that were the case, I’d recommend them before, during, and after. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/29 "2012-10-18T22:27:09Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > How the hell did you figure that out? I’m honestly curious. After about a year of searching my symptoms online, I found a low carb forum where people complained of the same symptoms and claimed that eating carbs to refill liver glycogen let them sleep without the adrenaline surges. I ran an experiment on myself (exercise w/o carbs to see if I still got the surges, I did. Then a week later exercise with a lot of high fructose corn syrup immediately after exercise to see if I got the surges. I didn’t). After I figured that out, I studied and found fructose is better than glucose for liver glycogen. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/30 "2012-10-19T12:57:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > After about a year of searching my symptoms online, I found a low carb forum where people complained of the same symptoms and claimed that eating carbs to refill liver glycogen let them sleep without the adrenaline surges. I ran an experiment on myself (exercise w/o carbs to see if I still got the surges, I did. Then a week later exercise with a lot of high fructose corn syrup immediately after exercise to see if I got the surges. I didn’t). After I figured that out, I studied and found fructose is better than glucose for liver glycogen. Huh. I wonder if something similar causes my periodic sleep issues. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/31 "2012-10-19T14:44:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > After about a year of searching my symptoms online, I found a low carb forum where people complained of the same symptoms and claimed that eating carbs to refill liver glycogen let them sleep without the adrenaline surges. I ran an experiment on myself (exercise w/o carbs to see if I still got the surges, I did. Then a week later exercise with a lot of high fructose corn syrup immediately after exercise to see if I got the surges. I didn’t). After I figured that out, I studied and found fructose is better than glucose for liver glycogen. Now I’m curious. What was your low fructose but equally high carb comparison? (Recognizing of course that sucrose has as much fructose as high fructose corn syrup does.) And why in particular using a high fructose corn syrup rather than say fruit juice or even fruit? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/32 "2012-10-19T19:36:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not necessarily. [Official position statements](http://www.wanttoknownow.com/pdfs/Nutrition%20and%20athletic%20performance.pdf) emphasize not only that immediate replacement but continuing over time. Or what I said earlier: > [@emacknight](#): > > Post exercise you need 1.2g of carbs per kilo body weight per hour, for a couple of hours to get your muscle glycogen stores back up. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/33 "2012-10-19T22:12:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Now I’m curious. What was your low fructose but equally high carb comparison? (Recognizing of course that sucrose has as much fructose as high fructose corn syrup does.) > > And why in particular using a high fructose corn syrup rather than say fruit juice or even fruit? I didn’t run an experiment using pure glucose. It wouldn’t have matter anyway since glucose is also converted to liver glycogen, but fructose is 2-4x better at refilling liver glycogen (glucose is better for muscle glycogen, but muscle glycogen wasn’t my problem). So if I had eaten a ton of glucose it probably would’ve had the same effect. If I had eaten 200g of glucose I’m guessing that would’ve refilled my liver glycogen just as well as 50-75g of fructose. The first time I did it I wanted to eat as much sugar as I could stomach since I figured better too much than too little, so that made fruit unrealistic since I couldn’t eat that much fruit (plus at the time I was still a bit confused about liver vs muscle glycogen, and it takes a lot more carbs to refill muscle glycogen than liver). I drank sugary soda instead of fruit juice, I don’t remember my exact motives for picking one over the other. I figured both were about equally unhealthy. My impression is fruit, fruit juice, table sugar and high fructose corn syrup are all about 50/50 fructose/glucose. HFCS is 55/45 which is a slight advantage, maybe that is why I picked soda instead of fruit juice (I don’t recall exactly). However after experimenting I found 50-75g fructose is enough to let me sleep w/o adrenaline surges when I do intense exercise. I don’t know if less than that will still let me do it, the surges are so unpleasant that I don’t want to risk it (however on nights when I do have the surges, I just drink fructose dissolved in a liquid, wait a couple hours, then go to bed again and that seems to work). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/34 "2012-10-19T22:20:28Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Huh. I wonder if something similar causes my periodic sleep issues. You can try it to see if it helps. I personally buy [pure fructose sugar](https://www.google.com/shopping/product/10904866707527089621?q=fructose%20sugar&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=bb2e79c6c9080287&bpcl=35466521&biw=1280&bih=503&tch=1&ech=1&psi=ndGBUKnwEqvKyQGdtYHwBA.1350685084288.5&sa=X&ei=pNGBUJb0OoS0yAG_hYGgCA&ved=0CGYQ8wIwAA) and mix that in with liquid and take it immediately after exercise (or a couple hours before bed if I’m eating too few calories. Eating too few calories also sets off the sleep issues, for the same reason I’m guessing. Depleted liver glycogen). But sugary soda, fruit or fruit juice should do the same thing. You’d just have to eat more of it to get the same level of glycogen. ie, if it takes 50-75g of fructose (for me) to keep my liver levels good, I’m assuming 80-100g of sugar or high fructose corn syrup would do the same. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140/35 "2012-10-19T22:44:07Z")
Well the advantage of real fruit of course are all the other stuff that it is packaged with. Sure juice cuts out the fiber (both soluble and insoluble) but even juices have a bunch of phytochemicals that very likely add in long term health and possibly even in aiding in optimizing the benefits of exercise in the short to medium term. **emacknight** , noted. But while I can accept that recovery will be faster doing that, is there any reason to believe that just eating a decent diet consisting of real fruits and vegetables during the next 24 hours will also be enough to replenish those glycogen stores\* by the time I need it\* 24 hours later? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carbs-after-exercise/637140.md?page=1)