Carbs and trans fats: big deal or hype?

[mr.jp]

Yeah, I agree. It baffles me that there aren’t more studies about this, if you consider how important it is to how many people.

[twickster]

@WarmNPrickly

Trans-fats are unnatural and have no redeaming value. The thing that upsets me most, is the way companies can get away with saying their product is trans-fat free when it is not. If it contains partially hydrogenated anything in the ingredients, then it has trans-fats.

The loophole is that “less than 0.5 gram/serving” is considered “trans-fat-free” by the FDA. How manufacturers dive through that loophole is by defining “a serving” as something way under what most people would actually eat in one sitting – “one cookie,” “5 chips,” etc.

Read labels carefully – if it says “no trans fats,” look at the serving size – is it realistic? – and read the ingredients list – as WarmNPrickly says, if “partially hydrogenated anything” is in the ingredients, give it a pass.

[Superfluous_Parentheses]

@Chronos

Except that now it turns out that trans fats are even worse than the saturated fats they were intended to replace. This is an easy enough problem to solve: Just revert to the saturated fats that everyone used to use, and there’s no reason any more to put trans fats in anything. They’re still not good for you, so moderation is still necessary, but at least they aren’t as bad as the trans ones.

So, given the current information on trans fats, is it better to use real butter or lard instead of margarine or vegetable shortning when you need solid fats?

[twickster]

@Superfluous_Parentheses

So, given the current information on trans fats, is it better to use real butter or lard instead of margarine or vegetable shortning when you need solid fats?

In general, yes.

[Superfluous_Parentheses]

@twickster

In general, yes.

That’s good, since I always get funny looks from my parents for cooking with butter instead of margarine (which doesn’t even work as well for certain recipes).

I blame the 70s

[twickster]

Keep in mind it doesn’t make butter (which is all I keep in the house, also) good – just “less bad.”

[Superfluous_Parentheses]

@twickster

Keep in mind it doesn’t make butter (which is all I keep in the house, also) good – just “less bad.”

I know. But you still need butter for pie crusts and bechamel sauce

[Bill_Door]

The only fats I cook with or eat olive oil, butter, and lard. My cholesterol is in an excellent range (164 ug/dl, with HDL over 50 ug/dl) despite the fact that I eat around 20 eggs a week, and 65% of my calories come from fat.

It used to be high back in my margarine days, but I was eating a lot more carbs then, and it may be connected to that. Right now probably 15% of my calories comes from carbohydrates.

[MichaelQReilly]

As is the case with all things health related, I think that what is best for people diet-wise depends on the person.

For example, I’m not diabetic, but I have a history of diabetes in my family. Simply put, my body does not handle sugar (and thus carbs) very well. I’m not overweight by any means (6’ 195), but I tend to develop a spare tire over time if I eat normally. If I want to get rid of it, all I have to do is cut out carbs and the weight falls off me, I can easily drop 10 pounds in 2 weeks if I wanted to.

On the other hand, my best friend’s wife is a former all-state soccer player and has an obviously athletic build. From what I’ve seen, she eats close to 100% carbs. After her pregnancy she wanted to lose 5 or so pounds and decided to do the low carb diet. Her and my friend followed it religiously for well over a month and it had zero impact on her.

Only two anecdotes I know, but I think this reflects my theory, which is that some people’s bodies just don’t process sugar well. If you are one of those people, carbs can make a huge difference for you. If you aren’t, reducing them won’t make any difference than what would occur from just cutting your diet in general.

Finally, fairly recently there was a long term scientific study that concluded that low-carb diets are actually better for a person’s heart than traditional low-fat diets. I think this is it: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/359/3/229

[DrDeth]

@Superfluous_Parentheses

So, given the current information on trans fats, is it better to use real butter or lard instead of margarine or vegetable shortning when you need solid fats?

In moderation. But note there are butter/canola or olive oil spreads that taste pretty good and are somewhat better (apparently) than straight butter. Some margarines are made with canola oil, etc, and are thus fairly “heart-smart”.

Of course, they are all quite high in fat, so use in moderation.

[WarmNPrickly]

@Nametag

(Bolding Mine). This statement is not true. While it’s certainly possible for a manufacturer to lie about their trans fats, partially hydrogenated fats can be prepared without trans fats by the simple substitution of a selective catalyst into the process. It’s not actually being done yet, and not 100% trans-free (note: this is a correction to my statement in the previous post), but regulation of temperature and pressure can also minimize trans fat, and blending with fully hydrogenated fats and regular oils can drop the level of trans fat to less than 1%.

Naturally, polyunsaturated vegetable oil is best when it’s otherwise suitable, and naturally, products reformulated to eliminate partially hydrogenated fats are best for avoiding trans fats altogether (Crisco, for instance, is now a blend of hard shortening and vegetable oil). But let’s get our facts straight and avoid hysteria.

I’d be interested to find what catalysts are used that don’t produce trans-fats. Once the first hydrogen is added, the bond can rotate, and since each step is microscopically reversible it can lose a hydrogen just as well. Typically, this process can be controlled by thermodynamically making the reverse process unfavorable, but it still can’t be completely inhibited.

I agree that fully hydrogenating vegetable oil then mixing with vegetable oil should eliminate the problem, but what are they calling fully hydrogenated oil? There are diminishing returns on the energy required to hydrogenate something.

Until businesses are required to tell us how much trans-fats are in their products, they have no reason to change. 0.5 g/serving is way to high a limit. That limit should be around 0.01 g/serving. They can continue producing products as they are, but the public has a right to make informed decisions about the products they use.

[Superfluous_Parentheses]

@DrDeth

In moderation. But note there are butter/canola or olive oil spreads that taste pretty good and are somewhat better (apparently) than straight butter. Some margarines are made with canola oil, etc, and are thus fairly “heart-smart”.

I don’t eat spreads on bread. I just use the butter for cooking when needed (otherwise I use most olive oil).

[Critical1]

@twickster

The loophole is that “less than 0.5 gram/serving” is considered “trans-fat-free” by the FDA. How manufacturers dive through that loophole is by defining “a serving” as something way under what most people would actually eat in one sitting – “one cookie,” “5 chips,” etc.

Read labels carefully – if it says “no trans fats,” look at the serving size

seriously.

there are some cookies out there, chocolate devils food cake or something like that claiming to be fat free…serving size = one cookie. and no they aint big.

[aruvqan]

@Leaper

I was flipping through one of the “Eat This, Not That!” books at the bookstore, and every page made such a big hysterical screaming deal out of every carb and every point of trans fats that I felt like eating a big margarine sandwich (with extra bread) just to spite them.

Is it just following Yet Another Diet Fad <tm>, or is this a case of the hype obscuring a real concern?

no, margarine and white sugar on white fuffy wonder bread [one of the things available in the public school lunches was always white bread with margarine spread between the 2 slices … and one person I went to school with the year I was there used to steal the sugar packets from the diner and bring them in and make sugar sandwiches … BLARGH!:eek:]

about the only thing you could do to make it worse is figure out how to add artificial colors and preservatives … maybe some sort of sodium boost … hm, slim jims?

[Chronos]

Quoth Nametag:

Chronos, you’re one of the best-informed and most respected posters on the SDMB, but this is just wrong.

I’m certainly no expert on the subject, and most of what I know about it comes from one or two books. It’s quite possible that I misinterpreted those books; I’ll double-check them this evening and report back.

[aruvqan]

@Superfluous_Parentheses

I don’t eat spreads on bread. I just use the butter for cooking when needed (otherwise I use most olive oil).

actually apple or pumpkin ‘butter’ on toast or english muffins gives me a fruit exchange with no fat, and is nummy, especially since i like to spice them when i make them with a dash of ‘pumpkin pie spice’ [cinnamon, nutmeg and clove] and no added sugar just what is inherent in the fruit.

[panache45]

@Equipoise

Regarding carbs, anyone who has diabetes should avoid carbs as much as possible. I had a terrible problem trying to control my blood sugar numbers, plus I had high blood pressure, and being on the “balanced” low-fat, low-calorie diet, plus medication for both conditions, did nothing to help. In desperation, I switched to an ultra low-carb diet and immediately my blood sugar and blood pressure numbers normalized. Within a few weeks my doctor took me off the blood pressure medicine that I’d been taking for years (and was told I’d be on for the rest of my life). Soon after that he halved my diabetes medicine. My regular doctor and endoctrinologist are both very happy and approve.

I’ve been eating this way for two years and my blood sugar and blood pressure are both completely normal, and have been the entire time.

It’s a damned boring way to eat, and you have to like meat, but the way I look at it, I had all those years of being able to eat whatever I wanted, and being restricted now is worth it, much better being bored than the damage caused by diabetes and high blood pressure.

Every diabetic has to find their own path, and that was mine.

Edit to add, it’s become pretty fashionable to bash low-carb, mostly because it was a fashionable fad diet for a while. It is a good way to lose a lot of weight, but some of us eat that way for our health too.

I’m diabetic too, and have had the same experience. But it’s important to point out that not all carbs are created equal. I eat low-GI carbs exclusively, and try to avoid the high-GI carbs like sugar, flour, potatoes and rice.