# Cardinal Mahoney: God Grant Me The Grace To Forgive My Accusers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521 "2013-02-27T15:13:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/21 "2013-02-27T16:52:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I called his conduct despicable. > > But it’s not criminal. You \*really \*should know better, Counselor. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/22 "2013-02-27T16:55:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Try to stay calm. > > Now, explain, calmly, the reasoning behind calling Mahoney a criminal. > > Is it the use of “criminal” in some larger, metaphoric sense? Some sense beyond “he violated criminal law?” > > Then that’s fine. I get that. > > Was that it? I’m quite calm. I think we both agree that there are various colloquial uses of the word “criminal” that do not involve prosecutors or a court system. I’m saying your analogy sucked donkey testicles. Because it did. In the same way when my friend says to me “my dad just died of a heart attack. It was horrible!” I don’t get to respond “Oh I know all about horrible. Yesterday I went to the ice cream shop and they were out of chocolate! I know that feel, bro” and then act shocked that my friend would get insulted even though I used a dictionary-correct definition of the word. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/23 "2013-02-27T17:00:47Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Sorry for the aside but, will you kindly be more respectful to us believers? I know you people like to strut him about as satirical ammunition, but just FYI the polite way to evoke his name on a forum is thusly: F\_M. > > Also, if you were a true believer, rather than someone looking to score points, you’d know that “sweet” is NOT an accurate description of our heavenly father, blessed be his noodely appendages. > > “Savory” in, in fact, correct. The true followers of the FSM know he is Sweet, Savory and Bitter. The doctrine of Holy Noodle Trinity is sacrosanct and will not be denied, death to the infidel! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/24 "2013-02-27T17:01:49Z")
In the real world, rather than Hand-Waving-Apologist-Bizarro-World, we recognise criminals for what they are regardless of whether they have yet been convicted of anything. I’m with this former editor of The Catholic Herald on this. [The crimes of the Catholic church: not in our names](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/26/crimes-catholic-church-not-our-names?INTCMP=SRCH) > [@](#): > > The Catholic church is on its knees, and not in the way it would like. In fact, the last thing anyone would ask a bishop or cardinal about right now is prayer, or Christian witness, or how to live an upright, moral, God-trusting life. Why would you, when all they seem to know about is covering up sex crimes, inappropriate behaviour among prelates, political infighting at the Vatican, and the existence of a clandestine gay cabal at the highest levels in Rome? > > All of which is, for ordinary church-going lay Catholics like me, profoundly disturbing. How could an organisation that professes a direct link to Christ – “You are Peter,” Jesus told the first bishop of Rome, “and on this rock I will build my church …” – have gone so far off the rails that it now seems a power-crazed, untrustworthy and corrupt institution, out to save its own skin at almost any cost? > > \ > > I go to mass most Sundays but I couldn’t bring myself to go last weekend. This church isn’t the church I want to belong to. My only sliver of hope is that, through the centuries, it has sometimes brought itself to the very brink of self-destruction and, at the 11th hour, managed to turn itself round and live to fight another day. Can that happen again? God knows. But of this I am certain: if the Catholic church is going to pick itself up it needs to make some very big changes indeed. Trust the laity, share the power, open the pathways, make the mechanics transparent; and that’s just for starters. Oh yes: and read the gospels too. Was this the church Christ wanted? If not, let’s get back to that rock, and see whether we can build something much, much better. But here’s Bricker again, doing his impersonation of Duke from Doonesbury and his Public Relations firm running interference for tyrants and monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/25 "2013-02-27T17:02:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Try to stay calm. > > Now, explain, calmly, the reasoning behind calling Mahoney a criminal. > > Is it the use of “criminal” in some larger, metaphoric sense? Some sense beyond “he violated criminal law?” > > Then that’s fine. I get that. > > Was that it? > [@](#): > > 152.3. (a) Any person who reasonably believes that he or she has > observed the commission of any of the following offenses where the > victim is a child under the age of 14 years shall notify a peace > officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of > Title 3 of Part 2: > (1) Murder. > (2) Rape. > (3) A violation of paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 288 > of the Penal Code. > (b) This section shall not be construed to affect privileged > relationships as provided by law. > (c) The duty to notify a peace officer imposed pursuant to > subdivision (a) is satisfied if the notification or an attempt to > provide notice is made by telephone or any other means. > (d) Failure to notify as required pursuant to subdivision (a) is a > misdemeanor and is punishable by a fine of not more than one > thousand five hundred dollars ($1,500), by imprisonment in a county > jail for not more than six months, or by both that fine and > imprisonment. > (e) The requirements of this section shall not apply to the > following: > (1) A person who is related to either the victim or the offender, > including a husband, wife, parent, child, brother, sister, > grandparent, grandchild, or other person related by consanguinity or > affinity. > (2) A person who fails to report based on a reasonable mistake of > fact. > (3) A person who fails to report based on a reasonable fear for > his or her own safety or for the safety of his or her family. Why would this not count? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/26 "2013-02-27T17:02:44Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > If only there were a similar law in California to Missouri’s: There is. But in California, case law provides that in order to prove that crime, you generally have to show that the accused had specific intent to facilitate the commission of a crime by another, and had the requisite intent of the underlying substantive offense. In this instance, that means you would have to prove that Mahoney specifically intended that priests would molest, as opposed to simply wanting to protect the Church against disclosure. It seems to me that a grand jury declined to indict him, which suggests that they found not even probable cause to believe a prosecutable crime was committed. For some reason, making a simple, factual statement like this causes people to lose their minds. I get accused of defending Mahoney, under the apparent theory that because he’s a prick, a despicable louse of a man that enabled molesters to prey on children, therefore saying anything about him is just fine. I don’t understand that - I really don’t. The English language is full of hundreds of vile terms that accurately describe vile repulsive acts undertaken by a vile repulsive individual. Why must the one negative term that ISN’T factually accurate also be pressed into service? He’s a betrayer of trust, a slime, a sellout, a man who should be reviled. But so far as I know, he’s not an arsonist, a sous chef, or a cocker spaniel. So if someone calls him an arsonist, a sous chef, or a cocker spaniel, I genuinely don’t understand the impulse to let it slide, especially on a site that supposed shares an interest in fighting ignorance. Can you explain it to me? ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/27 "2013-02-27T17:04:28Z")
Sweet, savoury and salty, surely? You must be thinking of the Burnt Spaghetti Monster. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/28 "2013-02-27T17:08:08Z")
To prevent further interruption of the Bricker Show already in progress, I’ll merely state that while I already knew Mahony was a scumbag of (almost literally) the highest order, the obliviousness and chutzpah contained in that blog post is breathtaking. And I mean that in the “mustard gas” sense, not the “beautiful sunset” one. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/29 "2013-02-27T17:09:45Z")
So let’s say my buddy robbed a gas station, the cops are after him, and I didn’t want him to get caught. I give him the keys to may car and a hundred bucks cash. He drives my car to another gas station and robs it. In Calinfornia I’m guilty of nothing, because I didn’t intend for him to rob another gas station? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/30 "2013-02-27T17:10:27Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Why would this not count? The main reason is that section was added to California law in 2001, as the “Sherrice Iverson Child Victim Protection Act.” It arose because of the horrific molestation and murder of Sherrice Iverson in a casino restroom, a crime witnessed by a man who did nothing but walk away. The public was furious that the second man could not be charged with any crime, but no crime existed which criminalized a failure to report. As a result, the legislature passed into law PC 152.3 Mahoney’s acts in protecting O’Grady happened in 1986. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/31 "2013-02-27T17:11:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The main reason is that section was added to California law in 2001, as the “Sherrice Iverson Child Victim Protection Act.” It arose because of the horrific molestation and murder of Sherrice Iverson in a casino restroom, a crime witnessed by a man who did nothing but walk away. The public was furious that the second man could not be charged with any crime, but no crime existed which criminalized a failure to report. As a result, the legislature passed into law PC 152.3 > > Mahoney’s acts in protecting O’Grady happened in 1986. I wondered when it was added, but my research skills aren’t astute enough to find that bit of info. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/32 "2013-02-27T17:12:56Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > So let’s say my buddy robbed a gas station, the cops are after him, and I didn’t want him to get caught. I give him the keys to may car and a hundred bucks cash. > > He drives my car to another gas station and robs it. In Calinfornia I’m guilty of nothing, because I didn’t intend for him to rob another gas station? I don’t know what crime you’d be guilty of in California. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/33 "2013-02-27T17:13:28Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > So let’s say my buddy robbed a gas station, the cops are after him, and I didn’t want him to get caught. I give him the keys to may car and a hundred bucks cash. > > He drives my car to another gas station and robs it. In Calinfornia I’m guilty of nothing, because I didn’t intend for him to rob another gas station? No. You’re basically one of the Saints of old taken new form to walk the Earth, blessing us with your sheer presence. Have you not been paying attention? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/34 "2013-02-27T17:13:31Z")
Improper. Definitely improper. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/35 "2013-02-27T17:15:46Z")
**Bricker** , I’m curious to know something: On a personal level, does it disturb you at all to contemplate that Cardinal Mahoney is likely to prove beyond the reach of the secular system(s) of justice we have in this country? ETA: Please consider this in the context of the actions he has taken that are under discussion in this and other threads. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/36 "2013-02-27T17:15:48Z")
Its the pit, its not Great Debates. If you want to debate whether he’s appropriately called out as a criminal, go start a thread there. He’s a piece of shit who deserves whatever life throws at him. Including being insulted and mocked on the internet. (Gasp - the horror!) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/37 "2013-02-27T17:16:39Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I wondered when it was added, but my research skills aren’t astute enough to find that bit of info. I discuss the case in a bit more detail in the GQ thread that addresses statute of limitations issues for Mahoney [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16014589&postcount=11) Again, these are factual issues, and the kneejerk reaction of “How dare you defend Mahoney?” absolutely astonishes me. He’s not in prison because his acts weren’t criminal. He’s a scum, a weak man who let evil flourish, a horrid example to humanity, much less the clergy. Why we can’t let adjectives like that work for us is a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/38 "2013-02-27T17:17:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Improper. Definitely improper. You forgot ‘unfortunate’. So I guess, _technially_ he didn’t break the law in California. Too bad, it really is. The big question mark to me, now, is WHY THE FUCK IS HE STLL IN GOOD STANDING WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? > [@](#): > > On January 31, 2013, Archbishop Gómez relieved Mahony of all of his remaining public and administrative duties, over Mahony’s handling of sexual abuse cases during the 1980s.[22][23] Gómez’s announcement came in the wake of a court order requiring the Archdiocese of Los Angeles to release its unredacted files on clergy sexual abuse. According to the archdiocese, Mahony remains “a priest in good standing” and may still celebrate Mass, but he may no longer speak publicly[24] or exercise any responsibilities ordinarily reserved for a bishop, such as administering the sacrament of Confirmation.[22] He still holds the titles of Cardinal and Archbishop Emeritus of Los Angeles,[22] and retains his Vatican appointments including his eligibility to vote in papal conclaves.[25] Following the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI, a number of Catholic groups voiced opposition to Mahony’s voting in a papal conclave so soon after his censure; however, Mahony has publicly stated his intention to participate in the conclave.[26][27 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/39 "2013-02-27T17:18:04Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > No. You’re basically one of the Saints of old taken new form to walk the Earth, blessing us with your sheer presence. Have you not been paying attention? OK, you disagree. With what California crime should he be charged? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521/40 "2013-02-27T17:18:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The main reason is that section was added to California law in 2001, as the “Sherrice Iverson Child Victim Protection Act.” It arose because of the horrific molestation and murder of Sherrice Iverson in a casino restroom, a crime witnessed by a man who did nothing but walk away. The public was furious that the second man could not be charged with any crime, but no crime existed which criminalized a failure to report. As a result, the legislature passed into law PC 152.3 > > Mahoney’s acts in protecting O’Grady happened in 1986. I do believe that there have been statutes on the books for essentially forever that make it a crime to knowingly cover the tracks of someone else’s crime. I might not be capable of naming them - does obstruction of justice fit? I don’t know, and I don’t have to: we both know there are applicable statutes. So yeah, throw him in prison, where what goes around can very specifically come around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cardinal-mahoney-god-grant-me-the-grace-to-forgive-my-accusers/651521.md?page=3)