# Care to review the fax I've just sent to a nasty collections agency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626 "2012-01-25T19:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/1 "2012-01-25T19:18:35Z")
[It’s here](http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9720/collection.gif). I do hope I got the tone just right. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/2 "2012-01-25T19:24:43Z")
You sent someone a death threat by fax? IANAL, but I don’t think that was very wise. I also don’t think you should be publicizing it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/3 "2012-01-25T19:29:45Z")
It’s not a death threat, it’s a death wish. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/4 "2012-01-25T19:36:43Z")
While I agree with the sentiment, I also must agree with Rick. It was an excellent letter, one that would have stood up well in court when seeking damages, should they provide to be that harassing. But, then you went unprofessional on them. Sometimes the best revenge is the well written letter that leaves them totally holding the bag. Next time do it on an unrecorded phone call. Emotionally satisfying, and has the immediacy of voice communication. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/5 "2012-01-25T19:42:08Z")
Do you think that could be interpreted as threatening in any way? I should think that the book-ends of “I would be obliged” and “at your earliest convenience” make it clear that it is an entirely passive statement, even if “die in a fire” wasn’t so well-established as a hyperbolic phrase as to warrant acronyms and ironic t-shirts. A polite request, only - and containing no more menace than “I hope you get ass cancer,” which was initially considered but passed over as needlessly unprofessional. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/6 "2012-01-25T19:42:40Z")
Yyyyeeeeaaaahhhhh, sorry, OP, but that was a terrific letter … right up until the end. Wish you’d asked us _before_ sending it, because the rest of it DID have the right tone. ETA: it’s possible that you gave some collections-agency temp drone a much-needed laugh, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/7 "2012-01-25T19:48:26Z")
W/e. I liked it. Please sue them for my entertainment if they ever come back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/8 "2012-01-25T19:53:22Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > even if “die in a fire” wasn’t so well-established as a hyperbolic phrase as to warrant acronyms and ironic t-shirts. Only among a certain subset of Internet users. I think there’s a high probability that it will be misunderstood and interpreted as a threat. And I doubt the judge will LOL at your explanation. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/9 "2012-01-25T19:57:17Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > Only among a certain subset of Internet users. I think there’s a high probability that it will be misunderstood and interpreted as a threat. **And I doubt the judge will LOL at your explanation.** He’d probably throw the OP into the nearest quarry. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/10 "2012-01-25T20:02:33Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > He’d probably throw the OP into the nearest quarry. This meme is bad, and you should feel bad. They might retaliate, OP, especially if they do everything by the book (you’re throwing the book at them, they’re going to throw it right back at you if they can). There were much more eloquent ways to express your hurt and anger. You’d have done better to ask here \*before \*sending it. I don’t think internet memes are a defense against death wishes that may be perceived as threatening. I mean, just think about it. What if they really have a fire at the credit agency within the next couple weeks? Where is the finger of suspicion going to fall? Not wise in a legal document, no sirree. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/11 "2012-01-25T20:16:00Z")
… there goes the OP’s airtight alibi … ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/12 "2012-01-25T20:52:24Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > They might retaliate, OP, especially if they do everything by the book (you’re throwing the book at them, they’re going to throw it right back at you if they can). I feel secure that they won’t, precisely because they are in egregious violation of several laws. The debt has nothing to do with me. I have nothing to do with my mother’s estate - they are harassing an unconcerned 3rd party, and/or unlawfully disclosing personal information in the process. As phrased, I don’t think any reasonable person would interpret it as threatening language, and they are in no position to _pretend_ to feel threatened because they could make no complaint without disclosing unambiguously illegal behaviour on their part. > [@](#): > > What if they really have a fire at the credit agency within the next couple weeks? Where is the finger of suspicion going to fall? Not wise in a legal document, no sirree. Since their offices are on the other side of the country (4,500km away) and my movements are well documented, I am willing to expose myself to the risk of any suspicion which may come my way from a freak fire in their offices. 😃 To be clear, I spoke to a lawyer in September, when it became clear that what sort of a mess she’d left behind, and was told to expect this sort of thing. They have absolutely no legal leg to stand on, but they try to sound menacing because sometimes it works and they can get people to voluntarily assume responsibility for debts which have bugger all to do with them. I took all steps to make sure that there is no ambiguity about the situation, have no part of her estate. Sucks to be them; they shouldn’t have extended a bunch of unsecured credit to an old lady on a fixed income, and shame on them for trying to shake down her adult children. The first time they called back after being told “No, she’s not at this number, she’s dead, don’t call here again” they broke the law. They may have broken privacy legislation by disclosing details of the debt without confirming that she was in fact deceased. Harassing family members of a recently deceased person is disgusting and vile and my intention was to bring a little colour to the cheeks of the person assigned to her case, so they might at least provide a _simulation_ of shame. Just for a moment. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/13 "2012-01-25T20:54:13Z")
Agreeing with thew rest the last paragraph is not appropriate. Might have been better if you instead wrote: _“Attached is a map leading to her grave site. You are more than welcome to visit it and attempt to get your blood from the headstone.”_ ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/14 "2012-01-25T21:00:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Do you think that could be interpreted as threatening in any way? > > I should think that the book-ends of “I would be obliged” and “at your earliest convenience” make it clear that it is an entirely passive statement, even if “die in a fire” wasn’t so well-established as a hyperbolic phrase as to warrant acronyms and ironic t-shirts. > > A polite request, only - and containing no more menace than “I hope you get ass cancer,” which was initially considered but passed over as needlessly unprofessional. I don’t think any reasonable person would consider it a threat to take actual action. Thoughts are thoughts and it’s clearly hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/15 "2012-01-25T21:46:33Z")
Ah, I’m so torn - it was an excellent letter up to the last sentence, then it was still excellent, but for different reasons. I think, douchebaggy as they were, I would have still stayed professional to the end. We went through the same thing with my dad’s estate; the Scotiabank tried to make my mom responsible for some of his debts in spite of their divorce which clearly separated these debts from my mom. Nice - lie to an older lady to try to get her to pay a debt that she had no part of (I was involved in every step of these proceedings - there is no doubt that they were lying to her, not that it was just a mis-understanding). When they were told that they needed to back the fuck off, they did. I hope this works for you, **Larry**. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/16 "2012-01-25T22:40:52Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Agreeing with thew rest the last paragraph is not appropriate. > > Might have been better if you instead wrote: > > _“Attached is a map leading to her grave site. You are more than welcome to visit it and attempt to get your blood from the headstone.”_ I deem thee: Thread Winner. (Also - good advice for anyone in a similar situation as the OP and contemplating their own options…) ---
**Author:** ![minionkat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@minionkat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minionkat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/17 "2012-01-25T23:02:50Z")
Good letter. I understand where you are coming from. I agree that no reasonable person would deem that a threat. I have had to deal with collections in the wake of my brother’s death. My mother finds it too upsetting. Only one agency has insisted on a death certificate. I have it in a handy PDF so I just email it to them as warranted. My grandmother was the best. She and my grandfather separated in the 1970’s, but never actually divorced (Catholic). After he died in the 1990’s, my grandmother got a few calls for him, since his apartment phone was disconnected and her house phone was still listed under his name. She always politely informed the caller that he no longer lived there, and when prompted for a phone number, she gave 1-800-Heaven. This is the same woman who updated her address book over the years as her friends died, with their number crossed out and “In heaven” written next to their name in the margin. Good luck getting these people off your back. They suck. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/18 "2012-01-26T00:22:07Z")
The last line can no more reasonably be considered a death threat than can “go fuck yourself” be considered a threat of rape. Go, OP, go. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/19 "2012-01-26T00:42:50Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I don’t think any reasonable person would consider it a threat to take actual action. Thoughts are thoughts and it’s clearly hyperbole. But you can’t count on a “reasonable” person on the other end. You really have no way of knowing how a total stranger is going to interpret something, especially something that COULD be interpreted as a threat. And if there ever is a fire there, it’s not much of a stretch for someone to say “Hey, remember that guy who said he’d burn the place down?” It won’t matter that he really didn’t say he would, but the idea might be in their minds anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/20 "2012-01-26T01:00:56Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > I should think that the book-ends of “I would be obliged” and “at your earliest convenience” make it clear that it is an entirely passive statement, even if “die in a fire” wasn’t so well-established as a hyperbolic phrase as to warrant acronyms and ironic t-shirts. Seriously, you don’t really think that in the current “Terrorism is da Shit! OMG!” environment, this will be seen as “innocent”, do you? All I can say is “I hope you enjoy your Club Fed membership, dude. Have you lubed up?”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626.md?page=2)