# Care to review the fax I've just sent to a nasty collections agency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626 "2012-01-25T19:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/21 "2012-01-26T01:22:08Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Do you think that could be interpreted as threatening in any way? > > I should think that the book-ends of “I would be obliged” and “at your earliest convenience” make it clear that it is an entirely passive statement, even if “die in a fire” wasn’t so well-established as a hyperbolic phrase as to warrant acronyms and ironic t-shirts. > > A polite request, only - and containing no more menace than “I hope you get ass cancer,” which was initially considered but passed over as needlessly unprofessional. IANAL and IANYL FWIW, my SO and I both had a very good laugh at it, and neither one of us think it could be construed as a threat. 🆒 And yes, “I hope you get ass cancer,” would have been “needlessly unprofessional”, (just slightly, though.) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/22 "2012-01-26T01:22:29Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Seriously, you don’t really think that in the current “Terrorism is da Shit! OMG!” environment, this will be seen as “innocent”, do you? Well, I’m Canadian - it’s possible that we enjoy a more comfortable reasonable-person-to-hysterical-idiot ratio here, and I am spoiled by that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/23 "2012-01-26T01:34:34Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Well, I’m Canadian - it’s possible that we enjoy a more comfortable reasonable-person-to-hysterical-idiot ratio here, and I am spoiled by that. 😃 Not only that, but I understand that our court system also reflects that (as in, any court case that they might try to bring against you would simply be thrown out as frivolous). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/24 "2012-01-26T01:43:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Not only that, but I understand that our court system also reflects that (as in, any court case that they might try to bring against you would simply be thrown out as frivolous). 🙂 I envy my neighbors in the ‘Great White North’.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/25 "2012-01-26T02:12:13Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Well, I’m Canadian - it’s possible that we enjoy a more comfortable reasonable-person-to-hysterical-idiot ratio here, and I am spoiled by that. 😃 I’m Canadian and American, both. In my experience, the northern citizenship doesn’t have a terribly favorable “reasonable-person-to-hysterical-idiot ratio”, either. Some of my cousins demonstrate that Canada ain’t the wonderful place you claim. You’ve got plenty of idiots. And half of them are my cousins. And guess what? I can move to your town tomorrow. Get over yourself, Canada-snob. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/26 "2012-01-26T03:01:11Z")
But we do still have a favourable un-bunched panty ratio! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/27 "2012-01-26T03:54:18Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Agreeing with thew rest the last paragraph is not appropriate. > > Might have been better if you instead wrote: > > _“Attached is a map leading to her grave site. You are more than welcome to visit it and attempt to get your blood from the headstone.”_ This would have been a good way to end the letter. In a situation like this, I wouldn’t be overly worried about professionalism, only that you’re making your point in a clear and unambiguous (and lawful) manner. A statement like this would have allowed you to get in your kicks without conveying any menace. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/28 "2012-01-26T04:14:14Z")
Why link no work? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/29 "2012-01-26T05:11:35Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > [It’s here](http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9720/collection.gif). > > I do hope I got the tone just right. If you’ve already notified them to not bother you (in writing or other provable means) and they kept doing it anyway? According to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, you might be able to get a $1000 payment from them. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/30 "2012-01-26T05:15:52Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > If you’ve already notified them to not bother you (in writing or other provable means) and they kept doing it anyway? According to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, you might be able to get a $1000 payment from them. That is an American act, and does not apply to the OP’s location. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/31 "2012-01-26T05:20:35Z")
I dug it 🙂 I’m still giggling over the “at your earliest convenience” part. And _hugs_ Sorry about your mom, hon. I lost mine in 2011 too. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/32 "2012-01-26T05:28:33Z")
**Larry** , as you may know, your remedy lies in the British Columbia _[Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act](http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/LOC/freeside/--%20B%20--/Business%20Practices%20and%20Consumer%20Protection%20Act%20SBC%202004%20c.%202/00_Act/04002_09.xml#part7_division1)_ S.B.C. 2004, c. 2. Specifically, s. 114, on harassment: > [@](#): > > **114** (1) A collector must not communicate or attempt to communicate with a debtor, a member of the debtor’s family or household, a relative, neighbour, friend or acquaintance of the debtor, or the debtor’s employer in a manner or with a frequency as to constitute harassment. … and s. 117, on communication with persons other than the debtor: > [@](#): > > **117** (1) Except for the purpose of obtaining the debtor’s home address or telephone number, a collector must not communicate or attempt to communicate with a member of the debtor’s family or household, or a relative, neighbour, friend or acquaintance of the debtor unless > > (a) the person contacted has guaranteed to pay the debt and is being contacted in respect of that guarantee, or > > (b) the debtor has authorized the collector to discuss the debt with the person contacted. I know you cc’ed Consumer Protection BC in your fax, but you may want to follow-up with that agency to see if they might intervene for you. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/33 "2012-01-26T06:00:16Z")
People, please, a little common sense! Larry sent this via fax. Fax! In 2012, the idea of a fax is so quaint. But it’s good news for Larry. Since it was sent via fax, there is absolutely no way that any part of the message, including the death threat, will be legible. Larry, compose your message with a word processor, print to a .pdf, and e-mail the death threat. Just kidding. That would be lame. It’s 2012 - just tweet the damn death threat. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/34 "2012-01-26T06:09:42Z")
Finally got to see it (had to register with ImageShack because it said “unregistered domain” - wtf?). The letter is a work of beauty and an example to us all. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/35 "2012-01-26T08:26:45Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Do you think that could be interpreted as threatening in any way? > > I should think that the book-ends of “I would be obliged” and “at your earliest convenience” make it clear that it is an entirely passive statement, even if “die in a fire” wasn’t so well-established as a hyperbolic phrase as to warrant acronyms and ironic t-shirts. > > A polite request, only - and containing no more menace than “I hope you get ass cancer,” which was initially considered but passed over as needlessly unprofessional. I’d have split it away from the bit about not contacting you. Obviously anyone with an average level of reading comprehension would understand that you’re not actually saying “Don’t contact me again, or I’ll burn down your office with you inside it”, but the other half of the human race might make the mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/36 "2012-01-26T08:50:30Z")
Larry, that letter was exquisite! Well done! ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/37 "2012-01-26T08:52:50Z")
When My grand mother died, my uncle had the same problem. he sent them the death certificate and her “new” address, at the cemetary. They never called back. Maybe he just got lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626/38 "2012-01-26T19:32:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Obviously anyone with an average level of reading comprehension would understand that you’re not actually saying “Don’t contact me again, or I’ll burn down your office with you inside it”, but the other half of the human race might make the mistake. That seems a remote enough possibility that I’m comfortable with it. It’s clear from context that there is absolutely no expectation that they would attempt to contact me further, and so (unlike them) I would have no need to resort to vague threats in the hopes of influencing future behavior. The confidence in taking the liberty of using language like that flows directly from the absolute security that there will be no more communication from them. It would take a lot of willful ignorance to pretend to parse that as a threat. Seriously, if I sent my next door neighbour a letter reminding him of the bylaw requiring him to maintain his lawn, closing with “I’d be very much obliged if you would be so kind as to mow your lawn at your earliest convenience,” I would not worry that he might interpret it as an offer to mow his lawn - and the substitution of the phrase makes it no less clear. Even if someone were to fixate entirely on that phrase, its literal use is overwhelmingly overshadowed by its [well-established use](http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&site=&q=%22die+in+a+fire%22&oq=%22die+in+a+fire%22&aq=f&aqi=g3g-s1g1g-v5&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=59l4049l0l4926l32l24l3l0l0l1l263l2121l6.6.3l16l0) as an expression of dismissive contempt in the same category as “Go fly a kite!” or “Get bent!” but conveying an intensity which is appropriate for the sort of person who repeatedly threatens bereaved persons in the hope of tricking them into assuming responsibility for the debts of deceased family members who don’t even live in the same city. I would be more careful in my communication with them if I didn’t have the security of knowing that they are absolutely in the wrong and could be fined for pushing it any further. Apart from the strong disincentive, they have absolutely no incentive to do so, either - they were just shaking the tree to see if anything fell out, and they are assured there’s no fruit there. I derive a certain glee when truly reprehensible people go far enough outside the rules as to give me the opportunity to dispense with the usual polite masks and just give them both barrels. Last week I raised some eyebrows at work when they heard my half of a telephone conversation: > [@](#): > > _ring ring_ > “Good afternoon, [our company name,] how may I help you?” > _beat_ > “Yes, that’s me.” > _beat_ > “No, you need to get \*real \*job, you worthless sack of shit.” The other side of the conversation, which gave me the license to tell them what I really thought (without the usual concern for our corporate image,) was “Are you the person responsible for purchasing office supplies for your company? […][I need you to read me the model number on the front of your copier.](http://www.snopes.com/crime/fraud/supplies.asp)” 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/care-to-review-the-fax-ive-just-sent-to-a-nasty-collections-agency/610626.md?page=1)