# CarFax with scary history-Help **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570 "2014-12-30T21:54:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![helping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@helping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/helping)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/1 "2014-12-30T21:54:57Z")
So I am considering buying an old car that has been completely redone by the current owner over the last 3 or 4 years. Thing is, the car has one of the scariest CarFax histories I’ve ever seen. Looks like it went from a Salvage Title, to Rebuildable multiple times, a few auction sales, and was supposedly an auction fleet vehicle for a while. This car would never be a fleet vehicle as its a 2 seater, so I wonder if there is another reason auctions would title it so? Usually I would run as fast as I could, but the current owner put so much money into the car it literally looks brand new both inside and out, and is selling for a fraction of what he has into it. So I am still considering it. My worry goes to if the car had so many owners and changed hands, and was potentially around a business it may not have gotten the maintenance it needed from an engine standpoint. Although the current owner says it runs great, and is willing to let me bring it to a mechanic of my choice and seems like he has nothing to hide. I already know resale would be difficult and would have to be much lower because it has a history like this, and most people would be nervous, although I plan to keep the car a good while. To say this car has a long rap sheet is an understatement. Would you consider buying a car that had such a crazy history like below? All feedback appreciated! * * * Event date Location Odometer reading Data Source Details 06/11/1991 VA Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER 04/21/1995 SILVER SPRING, MD 36,317 Motor Vehicle Dept. ODOMETER READING FROM DMV 12/19/1996 BETHESDA, MD 49,000 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Lien Reported) REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 03/24/1997 FREDERICKSBURG, VA Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE NOT ACTUAL MILES POSSIBLE TOTAL LOSS - VEHICLE TITLED/REGISTERED TO AN INSURANCE COMPANY 08/21/1997 WALNUTPORT, PA 54,194 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE SALVAGE 02/11/2000 PA 59,380 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 04/12/2000 LEHIGHTON, PA Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 02/14/2001 LEHIGHTON, PA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 01/29/2002 LEHIGHTON, PA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 03/10/2003 LEHIGHTON, PA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 10/17/2003 HARRISBURG, PA Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL RECONSTRUCTED 11/20/2003 PA 78,969 Auto Auction AUCTION ANNOUNCED AS FLEET/LEASE 01/29/2004 MOUNTAIN TOP, PA 79,061 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE RECONSTRUCTED 02/17/2004 MOUNTAIN TOP, PA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 08/05/2005 NEWPORT NEWS, VA 80,100 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL RECONSTRUCTED NOT ACTUAL MILES 08/05/2005 NEWPORT NEWS, VA Motor Vehicle Dept. REBUILT/REBUILDABLE 12/29/2006 NEWPORT NEWS, VA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL RECONSTRUCTED NOT ACTUAL MILES 01/03/2008 NEWPORT NEWS, VA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL RECONSTRUCTED NOT ACTUAL MILES 01/02/2009 NEWPORT NEWS, VA Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 10/09/2009 NEWPORT NEWS, VA 100,343 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL RECONSTRUCTED NOT ACTUAL MILES REBUILT/REBUILDABLE 05/17/2010 EASTERN REGION 104,772 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION AS DEALER VEHICLE 05/19/2010 EASTERN REGION 104,772 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION 08/11/2010 ROSEDALE, MD 104,952 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Lien Reported) REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL 10/17/2011 ROSEDALE, MD Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE DUPLICATE TITLE 10/24/2011 EASTERN REGION 115,529 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION AS DEALER VEHICLE 10/25/2011 EASTERN REGION 115,529 Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION 10/15/2013 VINELAND, NJ 115,550 Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE NOT ACTUAL MILES ---
**Author:** ![Lorene89095](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@Lorene89095](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorene89095)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/2 "2014-12-30T22:02:24Z")
Exactly WHY are you even thinking about getting this mess?!!? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/3 "2014-12-30T22:39:15Z")
It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. If you want the car, grab it! What is it, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/4 "2014-12-30T23:47:51Z")
Gotta be a Yugo. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/5 "2014-12-30T23:53:10Z")
Yeah the make is going to affect my answer. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/6 "2014-12-31T00:11:47Z")
> [@helping](#): > > This car would never be a fleet vehicle as its a 2 seater, so I wonder if there is another reason auctions would title it so? I’ve seen vehicles listed as fleet because somebody at the dealership wanted to drive it. If it’s a sporty “cool” car, that may have some bearing: it gets kept around as a dealer or fleet vehicle, but is in fact permanently assigned to the top salesman or somebody else with pull. Also, I don’t know the rules in PA and VA, but in many states, a vehicle once branded as salvage can never be listed as anything but salvage or reconstructed, so it may not actually have “gone to” rebuildable multiple times; it’s just being reported as rebuilt/rebuildable on each subsequent titling from now to eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/7 "2014-12-31T00:23:21Z")
> [@helping](#): > > the current owner put so much money into the car it literally looks brand new both inside and out, and\*\* is selling for a fraction of what he has into it\*\*. Bolding mine. Why is the owner selling it at a loss? That’s a huge flag to me, regardless of the rest of the history. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/8 "2014-12-31T01:01:34Z")
What’s the car and how much are they asking? I would get it if I wanted this type of car, and it was somewhat cheaper than I could get from other places. Is it more along the lines of “sporty and I want it to look cool” or “very cheap and it should get me to where I want to go”? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/9 "2014-12-31T02:07:41Z")
If you intend to drive it until it’s dead, then any hassle you may have selling it is immaterial. If that’s not how you’ve treated the other cars you’ve owned, then resale is a legit concern. This one \*will \*be hard to sell. I would not be over-concerned about the restorer selling it for less than he/she has in it. That happens a lot on project cars, especially with amateur restorers. Eventually sanity or project fatigue settles in and they need to recover some of the money somehow. So out it goes at a loss. You’ve got to really want to own this make & model though. For just generic transportation I’d run the other way. **LSLGuy** Former buyer, restorer, and seller of wrecked or totaled high end cars. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/10 "2014-12-31T04:28:39Z")
Do NOT buy a salvage/rebuilt car unless you are comfortable working on cars. There can be all sorts of hidden problems and you need to be able to diagnose them or fix them yourself. If you take your car to the shop for everything, you could end up spending a lot fixing lots of different things. A car that’s totaled by the insurance company will be sold at a salvage auction. The person who buys it will fix it up and then it gets a rebuilt title. The problem is that you have no idea how well it was fixed up. Likely, the guy who bought it has access to a scrap yard and took parts from other salvage cars to rebuild this one. You have no idea the condition of those used parts. They were probably sitting out the in the open on the ground for a while. Do you have any info on why it was salvaged? You may be able to google the VIN and find the auction details. Sometimes you can find the pictures of the car when it was wrecked to see how bad it was. Unless this car is a really special model or something, stay away. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/11 "2014-12-31T12:50:12Z")
All this is why I’ve crossed CarMax off my list when I go to look at new-to-me vehicles sometime in 2015. A friend of mine bought his present car through CarMax. He’s had it since October, I believe. He already has a laundry list of things that must be fixed on it and he’s not sure he can afford all of it. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/12 "2014-12-31T13:20:42Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Why is the owner selling it at a loss? That’s a huge flag to me, regardless of the rest of the history. Selling for less than you put into it is common for many “hobby” cars. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I would not be over-concerned about the restorer selling it for less than he/she has in it. That happens a lot on project cars, especially with amateur restorers. Eventually sanity or project fatigue settles in and they need to recover some of the money somehow. So out it goes at a loss. Better said. > [@kiz](#): > > All this is why I’ve crossed CarMax off my list when I go to look at new-to-me vehicles sometime in 2015. > > A friend of mine bought his present car through CarMax. He’s had it since October, I believe. He already has a laundry list of things that must be fixed on it and he’s not sure he can afford all of it. From now on he is switching to the more reliable outlets of Craigslist ads and cars parked in supermarket parking lots with “for sale” signs on them? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/13 "2014-12-31T14:45:10Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > All this is why I’ve crossed CarMax off my list when I go to look at new-to-me vehicles sometime in 2015. 😕 CarFAX, not CarMAX. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/14 "2014-12-31T14:47:16Z")
Totaled, rebuilt, looks “perfect”, been handed back and forth to dealers on lease, being sold for a “fraction” of what it seems worth or was sunk into it. Hmmm. Clicks the “if it looks too good to be true it probably is” app. Ok, are you SURE the VIN numbers all match the ones on the paperwork? ALL the VIN number locations in ALL of the right locations? You’re sure that none of the numbers are missing from where they should be due to some pesky accident or repair? I’m only asking because nothing says “stolen” like the VIN doesn’t match or is missing. “No, man… when I was rebuilding that engine, the chisel slipped & took off the last 6 numbers. It was Horrible. I needed a band-aid… and… and I missed half a day’s work!” :dubious: Suppose… just suppose… someone stole a Really Cool Looking sports car, but for use & not to be chopped for parts. They’d need a salvage title for the same year make model of the totaled car. They’d smash out the windscreen & snip off the VIN plate and put it on the car that they were “rebuilding” or even just swap the dashboards. They might do it for some of the other places it appears and/or swap out parts without VIN numbers and claim they were added later as part of the rebuild process. The next step would be to wash the ownership a few times through transfers and I doubt a fleet leasing company is going to look all that close at the VIN plates as an individual might (they’re better insured usually too). Next, bounce it around a few dealers, maybe one who lets his kid drive it to and from the Frat House but keeps it on the books for taxes. All seems well and good until something somewhere trips a flag or a cold-case and somebody starts paying attention to that beautiful car. Suddenly, its for sale… and its a Steal. :dubious: [Sure, I know.](http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/1856551-181/stolen-chevy-returned-to-owner)[Something like that?](http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-man-reunites-car-42-years-stolen/story?id=16757179) [It could never](http://www.dailynews.com/20100922/dennis-mccarthy-stolen-mustang-recovered-35-years-later),[ever](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/nyregion/17corvette.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0), [happen my friend.](http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/stolen-jaguar-returned-to-owner-46-years-later/) If you know a few cops who can walk you through making Damn sure that this isn’t stolen (or misrepresented from true ownership like a car that some bank has been looking to Repo for 10 years) its a second reasonable step beyond just making sure that its in “beautiful shape” for a car that’s been salvage titled & rebuilt. PS- even if I’m Totally Wrong, what does it cost to check? “Just make that check out to Cash, buddy. Your bank is open now, right…?” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/15 "2014-12-31T14:57:40Z")
I’m trying to figure out just what kind of 23 year old car with 115k miles on it is worth getting with that sketchy of a title history. Most 1991 cars were pretty unremarkable- maybe the Acura NSX or an early Corvette ZR-1 is about all I can think of that would be worth having. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/16 "2014-12-31T15:00:32Z")
I might buy it, but I wouldn’t pay much for it. It’s like any other used car, if major components fail how much would it cost to fix? If that cost+purchase price is more than what you consider a reasonable value then don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/17 "2014-12-31T15:02:43Z")
NSX was my guess, too, since it was sold through a main dealer. Or maybe a third-gen RX-7. If it’s something any more exotic than that I doubt any mechanic you bring in will even know what to look for. _Please_ tell me it’s not a Lotus Elan. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/18 "2014-12-31T18:49:20Z")
I’m guessing we never find out. ---
**Author:** ![helping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@helping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/helping)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/19 "2015-01-01T06:31:11Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I’m guessing we never find out. Thanks everyone for your feedback! Happy New Year. It is a Nissan 300 ZX, so they aren’t rare, but clean ones are. This car I showed the CarFax on has a lot going for it, but it has these skeletons in its closet which I may not be able to overcome. For the right price anything may be worthy, but at this time I think I might sit this one out and keep shopping. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570/20 "2015-01-01T18:46:07Z")
One thing to consider is how old the car was at the time it got the rebuilt title. If you’re looking at a 1-2 year old car that was totalled and rebuilt you’re talking _huge_ damage and you have to wonder about what kind of corners they possibly could have cut to get the thing back on the road. On an older car, though, it really doesn’t take much to total it and it’s quite easy to just repair cosmetic damage with used or simply cheaper than insurance-grade body parts. I personally have no problem buying a car that got a salvage title later in life. This car I’d say is somewhat on the line with regards to that. At 7 years old and 50k on the clock it wouldn’t have taken a spectacular crash to total it, but it would have still had to be pretty major. I’d certainly get it thoroughly inspected, preferably by a body shop that does frame work, but if there’s nothing noticeable on inspection I probably wouldn’t be too worried about it. Other than the salvage title at 50k and the weirdness with it being reported as a fleet car at auction (almost certainly a typo, very common on VIN reports) the vehicle history looks pretty normal to me. It looks like the subsequent owners each put a fairly decent chunk of mileage (for a sports car) on it before trading it in which doesn’t suggest to me a problem car. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carfax-with-scary-history-help/708570.md?page=2)