# Carnivore Parents Forcing Their Beliefs on Vegan Kids. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 7, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717 "2019-03-07T18:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/41 "2019-03-08T20:30:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m sure this has something to do with the Green New Deal which is going to outlaw hamburgers… 😃 Which, of course, it isn’t. Not in any way shape or form. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/42 "2019-03-08T20:39:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If a child takes off her coat and stuffs it in her backpack between home and the bus stop, are the parents at fault? Yeah, because you let your child walk outdoors unsupervised. Don’t you know that children are never to be left alone for any reason anymore? When I was on the board of our local after school care, we had to deal with child protective services because one of the children was walking to school. She lived a block away, and was 7 or 8 years old. Some busybody watching out the window reported the ‘negligently unsupervised’ child. Why, she even had to cross a street by herself! Horrors! When I was a kid, the streets were full of children walking to and from elementary school. Now, the streets are full of cars idling outside waiting for their fragile kids to make the perilous journey from the front door of the school to the sidewalk where the SUV awaits. I’m sure it’s nerve-wracking for the poor parents. As for child veganism, so long as the food I put on the table was nutritious, my kid could either eat it, make something else nutritious by himself, or go hungry. As a result, we never had a problem and our kid grew up well adjusted. Coddle children too much, and you get fussy, entitled adults who don’t function well in a world where they don’t always get what they want and sometimes have to deal with scary or unpleasant things. See: Modern college campuses. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/43 "2019-03-08T20:46:48Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I hope that my children learn that if there’s something they really believe in strongly that takes incredibly minimal effort on my part to help them achieve, they should persist in asking for it. Although I’d make them warm up their own damn beans. > > We all get to make our own parenting decisions, but… are you actually coming down on the _parents_ side in this? > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Agreed, what a terrible thing for children to learn. Much better to make them go hungry until they give up on their beliefs. Nobody is going hungry. If you are hungry, you will eat, even if it is not your favorite food. The kitchen in my house is not a restaurant and there are not menus passed out where a child gets to determine what is served for dinner in the evening. When they become adults, they can eat vegan food, beans, hamburger, junk food, or drink whiskey for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/44 "2019-03-08T21:24:24Z")
For a good example of how to deal with this, please watch [THIS VIDEO](https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gordon+ramsay+cooks+for+a+vegatarian&view=detail&mid=7BE60598B867FB54E29B7BE60598B867FB54E29B&FORM=VIRE) where acclaimed chef Gordon Ramsay cooks a steak for a vegetarian who has been having health issues and helps her overcome her issues with eating meat. No really. This video is really a good guide to how to approach this. Ramsay, since he is a chef, knows vegetarian diets and vegetables VERY well plus all aspects of the meat industry so he can respectfully discuss the womans concerns. Parents I know who’s kids suddenly announced they from now on will be vegetarians - well they went along with it. They tried to cook something the kid would eat along with meals for everyone else. Kids go thru phases. Like Ramsay, they might say something if the kid isnt doing a vegetarian diet correctly and not getting enough proteins and certain vitamins and were getting sick. They might also discuss their motives such as cruelty to animals or environmental impact issues. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/45 "2019-03-08T21:30:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The analogies are getting a bit far afield. I claimed that parents are responsible for the welfare of their children. If you know your child isn’t wearing the coat you offered, and your attitude is “I offered it, so it’s not my problem anymore” you are transferring that responsibility (or part of it) to the child. That’s true. But transferring responsibility to a child is a lot of what parents do. Obviously it depends on the child and the parent and the age, but for a normal child, “if you don’t wear your jacket you are gonna be cold” and “I know you’re hungry - that’s what happens when you don’t eat” isn’t a lesson that needs to be repeated very often. > [@](#): > > If you know your child isn’t wearing the coat, and you allow that child to be in a place where wearing that coat is critical for their safety, you’re not taking their safety seriously. So too with things like seatbelts and lifejackets. Sure - but you gotta pick your battles. For most children at most times, they aren’t in anything like the same danger for skipping dinner as not wearing a seat belt. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/46 "2019-03-08T21:48:20Z")
Again, I wonder if anyone has a cite for these extreme examples where a child is frostbitten and near death, because he or she refused to wear a jacket that the child’s parents provided yet suffered in the cold? Or where a child is malnourished to the point of CPS involvement where the parents offered balanced meals to the child, but the child refused to eat out of stubborn persistence because he or she did not like the dinner fare? If it even begins to begin to approach that point, then what you have is not simply a stubborn child, but one with a seeming mental illness, and a mental illness that nobody has provided an example of. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/47 "2019-03-08T21:53:07Z")
Also, I am mostly answering the question of the OP. I’m not saying that this is always the right course to take. There is a difference between a 5 year old child and a 17 year old. As the child gets older, it could be an excellent teaching point. We provide you food, but if you prefer something else, then you can take your allowance, go to the grocery store and buy the food you like. We won’t be ordering take out for you. And when dinner is being prepared, you can join your mother in the kitchen and cook your food. We will not be going to extra effort or expense to serve you. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/48 "2019-03-08T22:13:16Z")
When we were kids, it went like this: Q: Mom, what’s for dinner? A: Whatever I make. Q: When will it be ready? A: Whenever I make it. That was decidedly NOT child abuse. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/49 "2019-03-08T22:32:25Z")
Man, I can’t for the life of my understand the mindset that a child who picks a perfectly reasonable dietary choice (different from a diet of all-candy) is somehow being uppity and demanding. And that the parent is being so terribly, terribly put-upon by adding some vegan-friendly dish at every meal. I mean… do you just throw down a hunk of meat on a large platter and that’s all y’all eat? If not, what the heck is so hard about having a salad, meat dish _du jour_, with sides of broccoli (or some other vegetable, potatoes, rice, whatever) and beans? Add almonds or walnuts to the salad for a little extra protein. Now everyone has something to eat, end of story. This is such an easy accommodation (and hey, cheaper since it stretches your meat budget) that doing otherwise just seems like pointless control-freakery to strut your stuff as the big bad parent. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/50 "2019-03-08T22:42:35Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Man, I can’t for the life of my understand the mindset that a child who picks a perfectly reasonable dietary choice (different from a diet of all-candy) is somehow being uppity and demanding. Since humans are omnivores, veganism isn’t a “perfectly” reasonable choice. And minor children are particularly unsuited to be making such choices. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/51 "2019-03-08T23:03:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Since humans are omnivores, veganism isn’t a “perfectly” reasonable choice. And minor children are particularly unsuited to be making such choices. Are you confusing omnivores and obligate carnivores? Because it’s only the latter (as in cats) who _must_ eat meat. Veganism is a perfectly healthy (possibly healthier, depending on their choices, although B12 supplements are usually necessary) option. And I suspect the youngest of kids would be vegetarians rather than vegans, which opens up more choices including milk, cheese, and butter. Mac and cheese, woohoo! And in some cases, eggs, which is awesome because spinach and cheese quiches are a great meal option. So what if the idea goes the other way? Parents are vegan and only feed their kids vegan food, but one of the kids wants butter or cheese or craves eggs or whatever. Personally this seems like a much more reasonable reason to be a bit more hard-lined, since veganism is practically a religion to these people–a bit like keeping kosher, although obviously not quite the same since unless I’m mistaken there’s no recognized religion that’s vegan. (Buddhists are vegetarian, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/52 "2019-03-08T23:22:25Z")
Not sure about Buddhists - they tend to be vegetarian but I don’t know if it’s required. Jains require vegetarianism, but allow dairy. On the other hand, they forbid broad categories of plants like root vegetables. [More here on Jain vegetarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism). Some Jains view modern dairy practices as committing violence to cows, and those folks are vegans on top of all the other restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/53 "2019-03-09T00:50:05Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Man, I can’t for the life of my understand the mindset that a child who picks a perfectly reasonable dietary choice (different from a diet of all-candy) is somehow being uppity and demanding. And that the parent is being so terribly, terribly put-upon by adding some vegan-friendly dish at every meal. I mean… do you just throw down a hunk of meat on a large platter and that’s all y’all eat? > > If not, what the heck is so hard about having a salad, meat dish _du jour_, with sides of broccoli (or some other vegetable, potatoes, rice, whatever) and beans? Add almonds or walnuts to the salad for a little extra protein. Now everyone has something to eat, end of story. > > This is such an easy accommodation (and hey, cheaper since it stretches your meat budget) that doing otherwise just seems like pointless control-freakery to strut your stuff as the big bad parent. The kid is too young to make such a choice. As you say in your next post, the diet is so deficient that vitamin supplements need to be taken. If someone wants to do that, then fine, but not a kid I am responsible for. As a parent, my job is to expose my children to different foods and to make sure that they are healthy, not to listen to them make demands. When they are older and if they choose to be vegan, then they do so with a basis of knowledge of what it was like to eat meat and can make their decision accordingly. Too many people want to be best buds with their minor children and treat them like little adults. They aren’t. My job is not to accommodate their preferred diet. I feed them food. I wouldn’t have such a wide ranging like or dislike for different types of foods if my mother hadn’t made me eat them. Once I turned 18, I vowed never to eat liver and onions again, and I have not. But at least I know I don’t like them because I have tried them before. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/54 "2019-03-09T00:59:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Since humans are omnivores, veganism isn’t a “perfectly” reasonable choice. And minor children are particularly unsuited to be making such choices. When my sister went vegan for a few years at 13, she was able to have calm, reasonable discussions with my parents about it, explaining her ethical stance (albeit with a natural amount of impassioned teenageness), and the family came to the sorts of reasonable accommodations already mentioned here (cook her own food a lot of the time, doing enough research to make sure the diet was healthy enough). She was more sensible about it than many adults I’ve known on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/55 "2019-03-09T01:38:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The kid is too young to make such a choice. As you say in your next post, the diet is so deficient that vitamin supplements need to be taken. If someone wants to do that, then fine, but not a kid I am responsible for. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/56 "2019-03-09T02:45:54Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > When they become adults, they can eat vegan food, beans, hamburger, junk food, or drink whiskey for dinner. qft +1 Also, I had all those things for dinner tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/57 "2019-03-09T03:22:50Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > No, they’ll end up being treated in hospital for malnutrition, which is very different. If you can find a diagnostic manual which treats a commitment to vegetarianism for ethical reasons as an “eating disorder”, now would be a good time to post a link to it. > You treat malnutrition by providing adequate nutrition, and it’s usually perfectly possible to do this with a vegetarian or a vegan diet. > I think they may be. As noted, the hospital will treat the child for malnutrition, but the question will certainly arise, how does this child come to be malnourished? And the answer is a combination of choices; the child chooses not to eat meat, and the parents choose not to provide adequate non-meat protein. And while the law doesn’t expect the child to make mature and responsible choices, it does expect the parents to do that. As you say yourself, few parents would push it to the point where the child becomes signficantly malnourished but that just underlines the point; those who do push it to that point don’t appear to be making a reasonable choice in the best interests of the child. At some point, laws dealing with the neglect of children’s welfare are going to become relevant. > > Broaden this out a bit. For teenagers to feel drawn to vegetarianism or veganism is common (and becoming more common). This can be problematic if other members of the family are carnivores. Most families manage to negotiate this without anybody become malnourished. Maybe the whole family eats vegetarian some days. Maybe the teenager takes responsiblity for preparing their own food some days. (Or for preparing food for the whole family.) Maybe some days it’s meat-and-two-veg and the teenager skips the meat. Maybe there are conversations about parents respecting their kids developing ethical sensibilities, about kids learning not to be a dick to people who don’t share their ethical sensibilities, and about kids accepting responsiblity for doing some research, and making some choices, so that they can rspect their own ethics and also not become malnourished. > > The parents are the adults in this relationship, so they have to take responsiblity for leading this process. But it does strike me that “I like meat, so you’ll eat meat or starve” is not a terribly mature approach to the issue. And if a parent does choose to take this approach to the problem this does not mean that the kid has, or will be treated for, an eating disorder. I give it an extremely high chance they will be treated as having an eating disorder. If they are that stubborn in their choice, choosing not to eat to that degree will at the least get them a psych eval to determine if their choice restriction actually lands them in the realm of anorexia. Good luck finding a facility with a vegan options in their refeeding guideline for any malnourished patient. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/58 "2019-03-09T03:59:03Z")
> [@squidfood](#): > > When my sister went vegan for a few years at 13, she was able to have calm, reasonable discussions with my parents about it, explaining her ethical stance (albeit with a natural amount of impassioned teenageness), and the family came to the sorts of reasonable accommodations already mentioned here (cook her own food a lot of the time, doing enough research to make sure the diet was healthy enough). She was more sensible about it than many adults I’ve known on the subject. Yeah, I can’t see the point of parents throwing a wobbly about this and insisting that their kids **must** eat meat or go hungry. As long as the kid’s taking a reasonable approach to their diet and being reasonably considerate about the rest of the family’s preferences, I think it’s kind of assholish for parents to entirely refuse to accommodate **their** preferences. I went through a vegetarian phase in my teen years, and what it got me was the assignment to make the family dinner twice a week and help out with the grocery shopping. Fine by me, and the experience stood me in very good stead as an independent adult. And the rest of the family wasn’t injured by eating the tasty vegetarian dinners I worked hard to plan and make. ISTM that as kids get older, their status shifts from completely subordinate slaves/pets to that of lower-ranking roommates. Yes, you as parents still have the right and the duty to retain ultimate authority over their lives, but you need to help them adjust to having more autonomy and to the mutual compromises of happy household living. I don’t think it does kids any favor to keep them in strict subjection to parental preferences, whatever their objections may be, until they turn 18 and then to tell them that now they can do whatever they want. That’s not how good judgement and consideration for others are nurtured. > [@UltraVires](#): > > I wouldn’t have such a wide ranging like or dislike for different types of foods if my mother hadn’t made me eat them. I wasn’t “made” to eat any particular foods after I got old enough to feed myself, and I have almost zero food dislikes of any kind as an adult. I wasn’t fussed over or catered to with special meals, but I was allowed to have my own preferences and choices (politely expressed) without having to deal with parental temper tantrums about _“you will eat whatever I say you will eat!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/59 "2019-03-09T08:13:25Z")
I became a vegetarian at 14 years because of my mother. I lived with her and when we went vegetarian I believed her and just went along with it. I’m sure my father believed that it was just a fad but he was still trying to provide us with healthy meals. I didn’t eat meat for 10 years but took it up, again, in my 20’s. Being a vegetarian was fun but I did not like the dogmatism. It turns out that I’m lactose intolerant but never quit dairy products. That would have helped me a lot more than being a vegetarian. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717/60 "2019-03-09T16:36:33Z")
Our daughter was an ethical vegetarian at four for a few weeks. It didn’t last. But it isn’t HARD to support. A girlfriend of mine chose to be vegetarian at 14 - she did all her own cooking and research. She stayed vegetarian into her 40s, then discovered she was gluten intolerant and that became such a limited diet she started eating meat. My son’s an omnivore, but he’s been preparing and eating his own meals since he was about 14. He has usually eaten way better than the rest of us. (My daughter would starve if her friends didn’t drag her to the college cafeteria). I would think that if you forced your child to eat something they didn’t want to, when they had reached the age when they had some agency, and you didn’t provide food they were willing to eat, you could be accused of child neglect. It isn’t that big a deal to buy beans and brown rice and leafy greens and say “cook it yourself.” You have some rights regarding your child, but you also have a responsibility of care - and its reasonable to make sure that a teenager is not malnourished. You also have a responsibility not to emotionally abuse your child, and depending on their reasons for going vegan and how deeply held that belief system was, it could be emotional abuse to insist they eat meat. (i.e. I wouldn’t risk it. CPS can make your life hell if your kid decides to choose to bring them in at that age. More importantly, you want your kid to not leave when they graduate from high school and never speak to you again. I’d buy rice, beans and a crockpot and say ‘you go kid’ - and see how long it lasts. Veganism in particular is a boring way to eat - its sort of its own punishment…a deeply held belief will hold - a manipulative teenager trying to play his parents needs their bluff called - because veganism is a bluff for a kid like that). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carnivore-parents-forcing-their-beliefs-on-vegan-kids/830717.md?page=4)