# Caroline Kennedy - "A President like my Father" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240 "2008-01-27T22:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/61 "2008-01-28T22:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] What does that even _mean_? (I had been agreeing with you.) [/QUOTE] Neither Jefferson nor Lincoln were Christians, but nobody likes to talk about it. (Lincoln, in his youth, even wrote a book, _Why I Am Not a Christian,_ but a friend pointed out what that would mean for his political ambitions, and he burned the manuscript.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/62 "2008-01-28T22:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] The Bush tax cuts have actually helped middle income families immensely and stimulated the economy. [/QUOTE] :dubious: This is a whoosh, right? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/63 "2008-01-28T23:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] $20 billion dollars spent in Latin America, result: a wave of new dictatorships in Latin America. Are they necessarily linked? I’m not sure, but we definitely saw a wave of authoritarian governments being implemented in the wake of this $20 billion money sink. [/QUOTE] I’m not taking a position on the question of JFK being more or less culpable than any other president in the misery inflicted upon the people of Latin America in the service of American business interests. I am, however, taking a position that the construction of your statement above is sloppy at best, and disingenuous at worst. I refer to the way you use the word _“result”_. You are using it in the form of a declarative statement that one outcome is the result of an action. This is not the construction of a speaker who is “not sure” of the necessary linkage between the two. The opposite, rather. If you want to insist that you’re undecided on the correllation : causation question here, you can’t legitimately use the word “result” in this context; you have to find some other way of saying it. Interestingly enough, I have every reason to believe that your vocabulary and level of articulateness are up to the task. Conversely, if you really do believe that the two are linked, you need to own up to it. You don’t get to smoothly put the meme out there for everyone to see and pretend that you haven’t made up your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/64 "2008-01-29T00:36:19Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] They’re trying to reach out to Republicans. 😉 [/QUOTE] yah, in a Darth Vader kinda way… Luke, come to the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/65 "2008-01-29T00:37:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Neither Jefferson nor Lincoln were Christians, but nobody likes to talk about it. (Lincoln, in his youth, even wrote a book, _Why I Am Not a Christian,_ but a friend pointed out what that would mean for his political ambitions, and he burned the manuscript.) [/QUOTE] Well, I’ve said stuff like that before, especially in my youth. It’s certainly possible that you’re right, and that Lincoln was an ambitious politician who pandered to Christians, but the credibility of the argument is at least slightly damaged by the fact that by the time he gave his inaugural address, his goal had been reached. Then again, I don’t think you have enough evidence to declare categorically that he was not a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/66 "2008-01-29T00:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton to Martin Hyde] :dubious: This is a whoosh, right? [/QUOTE] That’s how I took it. Because we’re a middle income family, and Bush’s tax cuts have benefited us by exactly 37 cents per week. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/67 "2008-01-29T00:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=SmackFu] Well, it’ll be forgotten in a week, so… eh. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about that. The Kennedy endorsement makes a difference; it carries an amount of symbolism. And it came at an important moment with a huge win in South Carolina, despite Clinton’s efforts in discrediting Obama at every turn. Matter of fact, Bill made a huge effort to stop Kennedy from endorsing Obama. Why would he care if this endorsement didn’t carry weight? So, everything considered, this endorsement turned out to be big news day for Obama. And for anyone who still doesn’t get how Obama transcends race, gender or political affiliation, I just heard this on Fox News: “I think much more important than this though, if anybody watched Obama’s victory speech in South Carolina, after he won the primary vote so overwhelmingly over Hillary as well as Bill who was down there all week trashing Obama, when I watched that speech, one thought came to mind and that is this guy is going to be president of the United States - probably this year.” – Fred Barnes, Weekly Standard 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/68 "2008-01-29T00:55:23Z")
Ted is also heading out west to Nevada, Arizona, and California to court the Latino and Latina vote on behalf of Obama. With his reputation as a strong supporter of Chavez, he is a person who might actually heal at least part of the riff between Latinos and Blacks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/69 "2008-01-29T01:07:49Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Well, I’ve said stuff like that before, especially in my youth. It’s certainly possible that you’re right, and that Lincoln was an ambitious politician who pandered to Christians, but the credibility of the argument is at least slightly damaged by the fact that by the time he gave his inaugural address, his goal had been reached. Then again, I don’t think you have enough evidence to declare categorically that he was not a Christian. [/QUOTE] He wasn’t, though, not to the very end of his life. I’m basing that on [_What Lincoln Believed: The Values and Convictions of America’s Greatest President,_](http://www.amazon.com/What-Lincoln-Believed-Convictions-President/dp/0385507399) by Michael Lind – very thoroughly and impressively researched; check it out! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/70 "2008-01-29T01:11:50Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Ted is also heading out west to Nevada, Arizona, and California to court the Latino and Latina vote on behalf of Obama. With his reputation as a strong supporter of Chavez, he is a person who might actually heal at least part of the riff between Latinos and Blacks. [/QUOTE] It would work even better if Obama (if nominated) were to choose Richardson as his running mate. Dull speaker, but undeniably qualified, and Latino despite his name. I’d rather see an Obama/Edwards ticket, though. According to [this,](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22857689) Edwards is hoping to play a “kingmaker” role at a brokered convention. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/71 "2008-01-29T01:15:09Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It would work even better if Obama (if nominated) were to choose Richardson as his running mate. Dull speaker, but undeniably qualified, and Latino despite his name. I’d rather see an Obama/Edwards ticket, though. According to [this,](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22857689) Edwards is hoping to play a “kingmaker” role at a brokered convention. [/QUOTE] I would vote for an Obama/Edwards ticket. I’ve got to think this out though… who else would be a good match for Obama? Edwards is kind of shallow; he’s not as pure and real as Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/72 "2008-01-29T01:18:51Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] He wasn’t, though, not to the very end of his life. I’m basing that on [_What Lincoln Believed: The Values and Convictions of America’s Greatest President,_](http://www.amazon.com/What-Lincoln-Believed-Convictions-President/dp/0385507399) by Michael Lind – very thoroughly and impressively researched; check it out! [/QUOTE] I doubt anyone knows, but I think the question with respect to Martin Hyde’s complaints about Kennedy is whether Lincoln was a Christian when he took office, and since I have supplied the statement _he made himself as he took office_, it’s pretty much settled. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/73 "2008-01-29T01:18:56Z")
**Lib** , straight from the heart query keeping in mind the I’ve agreed/liked most of your comments in this thread: If it comes down to a two-horse race as it usually does and Obama is one of the two, would you (honestly) waste your vote on some far-out Libertarian or make it count? As in giving Barack a chance? For I honestly feel it’s people like yourself that really hold your nation’s future in hand (lever). TY in advance. Anecdote: While in Florida recently I got to speak to a number of the hotel staff and by and large, no matter race, they mostly had a huge distrust of Obama’s credentials. Namely, most said in some words or another “he wasn’t ready.” I just hadn’t the time or willpower to fight all that ignorance. Think it’s a national occurrence? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/74 "2008-01-29T01:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] He wasn’t, though, not to the very end of his life. I’m basing that on [_What Lincoln Believed: The Values and Convictions of America’s Greatest President,_](http://www.amazon.com/What-Lincoln-Believed-Convictions-President/dp/0385507399) by Michael Lind – very thoroughly and impressively researched; check it out! [/QUOTE] I think Lind is wrong on this one. I think that by the time he became president, and probably before that…probably by Eddie’s death, Lincoln started having some idea of a divine plan in the world…certainly by Willie’s. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/75 "2008-01-29T01:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] **Lib** , straight from the heart query keeping in mind the I’ve agreed/liked most of your comments in this thread: If it comes down to a two-horse race as it usually does and Obama is one of the two, would you (honestly) waste your vote on some far-out Libertarian or make it count? As in giving Barack a chance? For I honestly feel it’s people like yourself that really hold your nation’s future in hand (lever). TY in advance. Anecdote: While in Florida recently I got to speak to a number of the hotel staff and by and large, no matter race, they mostly had a huge distrust of Obama’s credentials. Namely, most said in some words or another “he wasn’t ready.” I just hadn’t the time or willpower to fight all that ignorance. Think it’s a national occurrence? [/QUOTE] No, actually I’ve already announce my plan to vote for Obama if he runs. But not because I think my vote would otherwise be wasted. It’s wasted anyway since it is so dilluted. As I said before, if Obama is not on the ticket, I won’t bother voting at all. I think that despite Obama’s left-leaning tendencies, I feel the same way about him that I did about Reagan who had right-leaning tendencies. There are times when the nation needs leadership and inspiration. Now is such a time. Only one candidate can supply that, and that’s Obama. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/76 "2008-01-29T01:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Anecdote: While in Florida recently I got to speak to a number of the hotel staff and by and large, no matter race, they mostly had a huge distrust of Obama’s credentials. Namely, most said in some words or another “he wasn’t ready.” I just hadn’t the time or willpower to fight all that ignorance. Think it’s a national occurrence? [/QUOTE] I dunno, but since he’s already being compared to JFK, some pundit is bound to point out at some point – and the meme will pick up steam – that JFK didn’t have much more experience when he took office than Obama has now. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/77 "2008-01-29T01:27:23Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I dunno, but since he’s already being compared to JFK, some pundit is bound to point out at some point – and the meme will pick up steam – that JFK didn’t have much more experience when he took office than Obama has now. [/QUOTE] Although Lincoln is the more apt comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/78 "2008-01-29T01:30:00Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s how I took it. Because we’re a middle income family, and Bush’s tax cuts have benefited us by exactly 37 cents per week. [/QUOTE] If you only got $19.24 back for the year then you aren’t paying much in taxes in the first place. Are you getting the the earned income tax credit? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/79 "2008-01-29T01:31:35Z")
I’ve always felt that the office of US President is sufficiently unique that the only way to get useful experience is to be one. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240/80 "2008-01-29T01:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] If you only got $19.24 back for the year then you aren’t paying much in taxes in the first place. Are you getting the the earned income tax credit? [/QUOTE] That wasn’t a tax refund; it was the amount of net increase in my weekly check. We don’t generally get refunds. In fact, we send in about $3K to $5K in fourth quarter estimateds (supplementing our payroll deductions) so we can avoid penalties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/caroline-kennedy-a-president-like-my-father/435240.md?page=5)