# Carrie Lam's name **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212 "2019-08-25T12:59:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/1 "2019-08-25T12:59:02Z")
[Carrie Lam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Lam) is the Chief Executive of Hong Kong. She was named “Cheng Yuet-ngor” at birth. In skimming the article about her, I’m noticing other Hong Kong politicians with European-derived names. What’s going on here? I figure there’s a straightforward answer involving Hong Kong culture, but I’m curious how it works. Is there anyone familiar with Hong Kong culture that can shed some light? (If all you got is supposition, can you please hold off? I can speculate with the best of them, but am looking for information on the subject). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/2 "2019-08-25T13:45:15Z")
It isn’t a Hong Kong thing, it is [a China thing](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&oq=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12...67.16286.0.17047.34.33.0.0.0.0.1533.10972.5j9j3j4j5j2j1j1j1.31.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..27.7.1792.iQIkt9poW3c). ([One of the better articles](https://themandarincornerblog.com/2017/10/01/why-do-chinese-people-use-english-names/).) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/3 "2019-08-25T15:36:10Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It isn’t a Hong Kong thing, it is [a China thing](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&oq=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12...67.16286.0.17047.34.33.0.0.0.0.1533.10972.5j9j3j4j5j2j1j1j1.31.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..27.7.1792.iQIkt9poW3c). ([One of the better articles](https://themandarincornerblog.com/2017/10/01/why-do-chinese-people-use-english-names/).) That is a great article. I have often asked my friends of East Asian backgrounds why they don’t keep their ethnic names like those of us with South Asian backgrounds are more likely to do. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/4 "2019-08-25T16:14:41Z")
It’s interesting, and I have in fact met a couple of these people who were tired of strangers butchering the pronunciation of their names (yet NB they didn’t introduce themselves other than by their given name), but how common is the nickname thing really (stats?) And how common are English nicknames versus Spanish, French, German, Russian, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/5 "2019-08-25T16:29:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It isn’t a Hong Kong thing, it is [a China thing](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&oq=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12...67.16286.0.17047.34.33.0.0.0.0.1533.10972.5j9j3j4j5j2j1j1j1.31.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..27.7.1792.iQIkt9poW3c). ([One of the better articles](https://themandarincornerblog.com/2017/10/01/why-do-chinese-people-use-english-names/).) That’s a fascinating and enjoyable article. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/6 "2019-08-25T18:31:13Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It isn’t a Hong Kong thing, it is [a China thing](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&oq=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12...67.16286.0.17047.34.33.0.0.0.0.1533.10972.5j9j3j4j5j2j1j1j1.31.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..27.7.1792.iQIkt9poW3c). ([One of the better articles](https://themandarincornerblog.com/2017/10/01/why-do-chinese-people-use-english-names/).) Interesting that they tend to refer to each other by relationships rather than given names. Just yesterday, prompted by a thread in CS, I watched the Netflix documentary “American Factory”, and found it odd that all of the Chinese workers referred to the factory owner as “Chairman”. I thought it made the owner seem a little pompous and self-important, but I guess it’s just another one of those odd cultural differences. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/7 "2019-08-25T19:32:48Z")
As a personal anecdote, it works the other way around too. All my children have been studying Chinese since the start of primary school. As part of the process, they had Chinese names chosen for them by the teachers. These are thoughtfully-chosen, with a proper “generation” name (ie, shared between the siblings）and intended to be “keepers” - the Taller Girl has used hers three times now on various language study trips to China and Taiwan, and language places will ask “what’s your Chinese name?” with the default assumption that if you’re interested enough in China, you’ll quite likely have one. They were gifted with the names “Sincere” , “Eloquent” and “Awesome” and their generation name is “Book” - which gets more and more collectively appropriate as the years go by. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/8 "2019-08-25T22:16:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What’s going on here? I figure there’s a straightforward answer involving Hong Kong culture, but I’m curious how it works. Is there anyone familiar with Hong Kong culture that can shed some light? You would have to contact radio one asia ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/9 "2019-08-25T22:25:56Z")
I used to work with a guy from Hong Kong who chose “Eddy” as his American name. When his brother emigrated a few years later, he suggested his brother use “Edward” not realizing that Eddy was a diminutive of Edward. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/10 "2019-08-25T23:21:52Z")
Also, some Chinese/HK people pick names that don’t English too good, as can be seen in some of [these](https://www.google.com/search?q=funny+chinese+english+names&oq=funny+chinese+english+names&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12...0.0.1.884.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..34.mobile-heirloom-hp..9.13.1946.dyxox1VHFHo) links. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/11 "2019-08-25T23:41:28Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It isn’t a Hong Kong thing, it is [a China thing](https://www.google.com/search?q=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&oq=Chinese+people+taking+english+names&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12...67.16286.0.17047.34.33.0.0.0.0.1533.10972.5j9j3j4j5j2j1j1j1.31.0....0...1c.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..27.7.1792.iQIkt9poW3c). ([One of the better articles](https://themandarincornerblog.com/2017/10/01/why-do-chinese-people-use-english-names/).) Thanks–this is really interesting! However, I’m not sure it addresses this specific situation (it might, I’m not sure). This article, and a lot of the responses, deals with the reasons that Chinese folks will often choose an American name when dealing with Americans. Does Carrie Lam only use this name when dealing with Westerners? When she’s communicating entirely within Hong Kong, does she go by Cheng Yuet-ngor, or by a different name? If she does, then this article pretty well addresses the situation. But if she doesn’t–if, within Hong Kong, she’s known as Carrie Lam–then there’s still a cultural piece I’m missing. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/12 "2019-08-26T00:50:08Z")
I found this [2017 campaign page](https://web.archive.org/web/20170130144415/https://www.carrielam2017.hk/aboutme/) which says “about Carrie”, “Carrie” written that way in Latin script. On the [home page](https://web.archive.org/web/20170130144404/https://www.carrielam2017.hk/) you can see it says “Campaign Office of Carrie Lam”. Presumably this was all for HK consumption. On the other hand, right above it it says “林鄭月娥”, so on the surface there is some inconsistency there. I definitely know Hong Kongers who do not have a special name “for dealing with Westerners”, so I’m still wondering how common that is. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/13 "2019-08-26T01:21:04Z")
Another anecdote- it is not uncommon for people of Chinese descent\* born in the US\* to have a Western first name on the birth certificate and used for legal purposes and then a Chinese name used possibly within the family or in the Chinese community. My husband and my kids have English names on their birth certificates, but they also have Chinese names. I think that perhaps the choosing of Western names that have no relationship to Chinese names is because you cannot simply translate the names ( like an Italian _Giuseppe_ can simply go by _Joe_ or _Joseph_ in the US) and there isn’t always a similar sounding name. A Wai Man might be Raymond, but that doesn’t work for every name. And when my adult daughter took Cantonese classes, the students without a Chinese name were given one by the teacher. - maybe other nationalities, too, I don’t know - maybe other countries, too , I don’t know ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/14 "2019-08-26T01:24:56Z")
I’m a white American, but my step mom was from Hong Kong, and moved here in 1990, when she was 30. Many of her siblings followed, and some have stayed permanently. Everybody I met from Hong Kong had an American version of their Chinese name which served as their “middle” name - Mei Ling was Maggie; May Bo was Mable. She also had siblings who’s Chinese names I don’t recall, but were named Jason, Emily, and Raymond. In the Chinese American community, these people tended to call each other by their American name when they were speaking English. Even now, when I have native Chinese clients, they tend to go by an English name (e.g. Jack), which is confusing when official documents use actual given names. ETA: I suspect that Hong Kongers call Carrie Lam by her Chinese name when speaking Chinese, but use the English name when speaking or writing in English. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/15 "2019-08-26T02:13:30Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > ETA: I suspect that Hong Kongers call Carrie Lam by her Chinese name when speaking Chinese, but use the English name when speaking or writing in English. I guess this is what I’m wondering: is your suspicion right? Is she known as Carrie Lam in the Hong Kong media created in Chinese? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/16 "2019-08-26T04:52:20Z")
I recall some comment once that tone is very important in the Chinese language and most Westerners have a real problem with that. Something pronounced with the same sounds but different intonation can mean something very different. In fact, one comment said this could be so confusing in Chinese (Mandarin?) that sometimes conversations can be very difficult to follow without knowing context to start. I imagine if you throw in accents it gets worse. (But then, not just Chinese - when I watched the movie _Billy Elliot_ I had to turn on subtitles and _Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels_ was equally confusing.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/17 "2019-08-26T05:53:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Thanks–this is really interesting! However, I’m not sure it addresses this specific situation (it might, I’m not sure). > > This article, and a lot of the responses, deals with the reasons that Chinese folks will often choose an **American name when dealing with Americans**. Does Carrie Lam only use this name when dealing with Westerners? When she’s communicating entirely within Hong Kong, does she go by Cheng Yuet-ngor, or by a different name? A what now??? That would be an **English Language** name, which is not all that surprising when you consider that English is an [official language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Hong_Kong) there, and half the population speaks it (and I’d be very surprised if that didn’t include everyone in government) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/18 "2019-08-26T10:17:16Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > A what now??? > > That would be an **English Language** name I’ve heard East Asians use “American name” with this meaning. In India the equivalent term is “Christian name,” as opposed to s Hindu or Muslim name. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/19 "2019-08-26T10:53:40Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > In the Chinese American community, these people tended to call each other by their American name when they were speaking English. > > Even now, when I have native Chinese clients, they tend to go by an English name (e.g. Jack), which is confusing when official documents use actual given names. > > ETA: I suspect that Hong Kongers call Carrie Lam by her Chinese name when speaking Chinese, but use the English name when speaking or writing in English. My experience working in China was that if a Chinese person was speaking in English, they used a Chinese person’s English name when speaking about him. It seemed like the English name was the English word for that person. It occurred even if two Chinese people were speaking in English. (When dealing with commercial software systems, lots of times there are object names, terms, and programming language that only exist in English. Some people will use mashed together languages, i.e. Chinglish, when discussing such systems. Others find it easier to just talk in English.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/20 "2019-08-26T10:55:25Z")
Whether it’s an English name or an American name or a Western name or whatever, do reporters use this name in Chinese-language media? If she goes by two different names depending on which language the communication’s in, I think my question is well-answered. If she doesn’t, then there’s still something I’m trying to figure out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212.md?page=2)