# Carrie Lam's name **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212 "2019-08-25T12:59:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/61 "2019-08-27T19:28:04Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Also, I’ve noticed over the years (not just at this job) that first-generation Americans with immigrant Chinese parents never do this. They always (in my experience) quite happily go by the Chinese names given to them by their parents. Of course, there are those parents who gave their kids English names. But if a Chinese name was given, the kids use it. I mentioned upthread that my step-mom and many people in her family emigrated her from Hong Kong. One sister - Emily (who’s Chinese name I don’t know) came with her toddler son, whose first name was Chun Kit. There was no effort to change that until he went to school, where it was suggested that he might want to adopt a more American sounding name (in part, unfortunately, because he was on the heavier side, so a name that sounds similar to “Chunky” was a bad idea). So, Chun Kit got to pick his American name. Being 6, and a huge fan of dinosaurs, the choice was easy - he became Rex. (I’m estranged from that family, so I don’t know how long that stuck, but he’d be an adult now). ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/62 "2019-08-27T20:22:54Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Yes. In my office, we were all expect to choose Chinese names, although, honestly, no one ever used them, local national or not. My niece accompanied us early on to study Chinese at the Nanjing University. She and her classmates were absolutely required to choose a Chinese name. It’s not enough to just write your name using Chinese letters? What if you’re Manchu, or Uyghur, or Yi, or Malay, or Japanese? Are you forced to change your name? Also seems at odds (assuming Chinese linguistic and ethnic conformity are motivations) with Chinese picking English nicknames. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/63 "2019-08-27T23:39:04Z")
I was legally required to have a Chinese name when my wife and I got married. I never use it, but it’s on my Alien Registration Certificate, along with my American name. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/64 "2019-08-28T00:28:07Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > It’s not enough to just write your name using Chinese letters? What if you’re Manchu, or Uyghur, or Yi, or Malay, or Japanese? Are you forced to change your name? Also seems at odds (assuming Chinese linguistic and ethnic conformity are motivations) with Chinese picking English nicknames. It was cultural, but also, there are no such things as Chinese letters. How do you write “Jim” in Chinese? You don’t. You can approximate it: “Jimu,” but that, spoken, is meaningless. And it’s not just the given name we’re expected to take, but the whole three (or four) syllable Chinese name, because one is seldom referred to by only the given portion. Thus, “Da JiMu” kind of approximates my name, but certainly is _not_ my name, because it can’t be written or pronounced in Chinese. > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I was legally required to have a Chinese name when my wife and I got married. I never use it, but it’s on my Alien Registration Certificate, along with my American name. Come to think of it, I had to use my transliterated – but not translated – name on my marriage certificate in China. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/65 "2019-08-28T00:38:29Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > You can approximate it: “Jimu,” but that, spoken, is meaningless. But that’s exactly how cross-cultural exchanges work, by approximation. A huge number of Americans—I’m guessing well over half of us—have family names that are approximations if the original names. I have a name that is never pronounced correctly by 90 percent of Americans, and not even by most Indian-Americans. But I would rather have people do their best to approximate my name than to just be a Tom, Dick, or Harry. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/66 "2019-08-28T00:48:59Z")
So, as a follow-up, are there other world leaders (from this century or the last) who had different official names used according to the language of the media in which they were used? Other than from Hong Kong? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/67 "2019-08-28T01:30:26Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > It was cultural, but also, there are no such things as Chinese letters. How do you write “Jim” in Chinese? You don’t. You can approximate it: “Jimu,” but that, spoken, is meaningless. As a tangent to the topic of this thread, that is a fascinating question. I would begin with Jim= James = Jacob = “supplanter”, “heel-catcher”, “leg-puller”, etc., and attempt to translate that. Translating the surname is a similar problem, for cultures where there is a separate family name (what are you expected to do if you do not have one?) Related to this, I learned from Wikipedia that there are still tens of thousands of rare Chinese characters not easily supported for computer input. I wonder what those people whose names include them are supposed to do? Lastly, must the name written in Chinese characters “mean something”? What should we call Stalin in Chinese, or Genghis Khan? It seems I agree with Ascenray’s point. > [@](#): > > According to the Song-era scholar Zhou Dunyi, the monk and translator Xuanzang (of Journey to the West fame) handed down guidelines of “Five Kinds of Words Not to Translate” (simplified Chinese: 五种不翻; traditional Chinese: 五種不翻). He directed that transcription should be used instead of translation when the words are: > > 1. Arcane, such as incantations > 2. Polysemous > 3. Not found in China > 4. Traditionally transcribed, not translated > 5. Lofty and subtle, which a translation might devalue or obscure ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/68 "2019-08-28T02:27:03Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I was legally required to have a Chinese name when my wife and I got married. I never use it, but it’s on my Alien Registration Certificate, along with my American name. Did y’all get married in the PRC or Taiwan? For my wife and me, when we were planning on getting married in Hong Kong (before the changes in the law back in 2017 turned it into too much of a PITA for two people neither resident in HK to marry there), the forms involved required her real name be transliterated in English and the Chinese characters for her real name since she’s Korean. I remember having to write my name transliterated into Chinese characters when I originally registered in Maomng back in 2012. Now that I’m in Beijing, the form is in Chinese and English, but my name is only in English. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/69 "2019-08-28T02:35:35Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > It was cultural, but also, there are no such things as Chinese letters. Well, there really are Chinese letters, if you want to count [Pinyin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin) or [Zhuyin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bopomofo). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/70 "2019-08-28T02:54:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I remember having to write my name transliterated into Chinese characters when I originally registered in Maomng back in 2012. Now that I’m in Beijing, the form is in Chinese and English, but my name is only in English. Left out a couple of words. Should read: > [@](#): > > I remember having to write my name transliterated into Chinese characters when I originally registered for residence in Maomng back in 2012. Now that I’m in Beijing, the form is in Chinese and English, but my name is only in English. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/71 "2019-08-28T04:52:18Z")
From my friend again: “yes, it is common among politicians, most of them have an English names, even those pro China politicians, most of them have ones too “Of course there are fewer among pro China politicians because of nationalism, such as form er HK executive LEUNG Chun Ying, he as no English name “They think ‘I t’s shame to use an western name, it insults my own country’s culture “ ‘We have to hate all western countries or even all other countries ‘ “ This is probably why this custom is much less seen in Chinese politicians. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/72 "2019-08-28T05:05:30Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Come to think of it, I had to use my transliterated – but not translated – name on my marriage certificate in China. They didn’t care. I have a common first name, but my wife doesn’t like it. It turns out that my middle name can be approximated by two characters in Chinese, both of which are commonly used as name > [@Monty](#): > > Did y’all get married in the PRC or Taiwan? We actually got married in Japan as were were both residents. Japan required me use my English name and for her to use her Chinese name. We ran into it what we were registering the marriage for Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/73 "2019-08-28T16:32:20Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, there really are Chinese letters, if you want to count [Pinyin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin) or [Zhuyin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bopomofo). :smack: Touche. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/74 "2019-08-28T16:34:04Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > From my friend again: > > “yes, it is common among politicians, most of them have an English names, even those pro China politicians, most of them have ones too > > “Of course there are fewer among pro China politicians because of nationalism, such as form er HK executive LEUNG Chun Ying, he as no English name > > “They think ‘I t’s shame to use an western name, it insults my own country’s culture > > “ ‘We have to hate all western countries or even all other countries ‘ “ > > This is probably why this custom is much less seen in Chinese politicians. I’m not going to Anglicize my name, but that doesn’t mean I hate western countries. I just think my Indian name is now part of western culture. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212/75 "2019-08-28T21:01:54Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Where is **ChinaGuy** when you need him? > > This speculation completely and utterly fails. Why would you speculate about something you have zero experience about? > > I’m in an office of half foreigner English teachers and half Taiwanese English teachers who speach Mandarin amoung themselves. Their conversations go “blah blach blach (in Chinese) Jessica (in perfect English pronunication) blah blach blach (in Chinese).” I have loads of experience being with Chinese speakers, I just don’t actually speak Chinese. This is the breakdown of my Masters course that I’ve been doing full time for the past two years - about 40% Chinese-speaking Chinese (mostly PRC), 30% Indians, 20% other-international, 10% native English speaker. Majority of my tutors - also Chinese speakers. In any case, that post was focussed on written language. Worrying about what character to use obviously doesn’t apply when you’re speaking out loud. I can’t say I’ve heard my classmates speak anyone’s name much in one on one Chinese conversation but mostly we’re talking about our coursework, not each other (also, the University kind of subtly leans away from encouraging English names - you can’t get it as an email address, for instance) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrie-lams-name/839212.md?page=3)