# Carrier To Keep Jobs In US **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431 "2016-11-30T01:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/1 "2016-11-30T01:37:19Z")
[Link](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html) According to the NYT, Carrier will keep about half the jobs it was slated to move in the US. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/2 "2016-11-30T01:40:46Z")
This is good, but I’m going to wait for Carrier to release a statement verifying Trump caused this before I give Trump credit. I don’t want to participate in 4 years of Trump taking credit for anything good that happens in America even if it had nothing to do with him. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/3 "2016-11-30T02:10:01Z")
It’s right on Carrier’s official Twitter. [https://twitter.com/carrier/status/803764047300722688](https://twitter.com/carrier/status/803764047300722688) He got them to keep 1,000 of the 2,000 jobs, for unknown concessions. The Pentagon is United Technology’s biggest customer, so I’m assuming a combination of Pence promising State tax incentives and Trump threatening defense contracts. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/4 "2016-11-30T02:25:33Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It’s right on Carrier’s official Twitter. [x.com](https://twitter.com/carrier/status/803764047300722688) > > He got them to keep 1,000 of the 2,000 jobs, **for unknown concessions**. The Pentagon is United Technology’s biggest customer, so I’m assuming a combination of Pence promising State tax incentives and Trump threatening defense contracts. I agree. Let’s see what Trump screwed the remaining workers out of. And I’m sure the thousand who still lost their jobs are fucking _thrilled_. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/5 "2016-11-30T03:01:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I agree. Let’s see what Trump screwed the remaining workers out of. > > And I’m sure the thousand who still lost their jobs are fucking _thrilled_. Good job not letting political bias jaundice the way you see this story. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/6 "2016-11-30T03:31:50Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Good job not letting political bias jaundice the way you see this story. All his products are made overseas. He uses Chinese steel in his projects. He paid a court settlement for underpaying illegal immigrant construction workers. Tell me again how he’s the friend of the blue collar worker. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/7 "2016-11-30T03:38:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > All his products are made overseas. > He uses Chinese steel in his projects. > He paid a court settlement for underpaying illegal immigrant construction workers. > > Tell me again how he’s the friend of the blue collar worker. All that’s besides the point. Losing 1,000 jobs and keeping 1,000 jobs is better than losing 2,000. Your bias keeps you from seeing that obvious point. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/8 "2016-11-30T03:39:35Z")
These were jobs in Indiana. The state Pence is still Governor of. Working to keep them IN INDIANA was something that has been and is his job. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/9 "2016-11-30T03:44:12Z")
I’m also curious to see what Carrier got in return. This is the kind of thing state and local officials would usually get involved with, so it’s odd to see a President elect micromanaging like this. I’m glad for those that will keep their jobs. But I wonder if Trump plans to bring back millions of manufacturing jobs 1,000 at a time. I am, however, pleased to see the Republicans’ new-found enthusiasm for government intervention in business. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/10 "2016-11-30T03:49:08Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > All that’s besides the point. Losing 1,000 jobs and keeping 1,000 jobs is better than losing 2,000. Your bias keeps you from seeing that obvious point. And you fail to see that the Great Negotiator failed to protect those jobs he promised to. Why not just threaten Carrier with all sorts of regulatory/tax/import tariff impediments? That’s what he promised, remember? Or is your bias blinding you? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/11 "2016-11-30T04:05:44Z")
The Pentagon is their biggest customer, so there is leverage. Also, the government (taxpayers) pays them $1.5 billion yearly for research and development. So with even more concessions, it’s just good 'ol corporate welfare and the rest of us get the bill. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/12 "2016-11-30T04:15:01Z")
[Trump abandons campaign promise to penalize outsourcing, offers tax breaks instead](https://thinkprogress.org/trump-carrier-jobs-913348bbf46) > [@](#): > > In order for Carrier to keep jobs in the U.S., the Trump administration has discussed relaxing business regulations and backing away from campaign pledges to impose tariffs on companies that move jobs abroad, according to the Times. > > The other concession under discussion, according to the Journal, is indulging the company’s desire for favorable changes to the tax code. One particular offer could be a tax holiday on overseas profits, given that United Technologies held 85 percent of its total cash, coming to more than $6 billion, overseas as of the end of last year. [After Trump pledged to keep Carrier jobs in U.S, company says it won’t move nearly 1,000 to Mexico](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/donald-trump-has-reached-a-deal-with-a-manufacturer-to-keep-jobs-from-going-to-mexico/?utm_term=.4ea92f857415) > [@](#): > > About 1,400 Carrier employees work at the Indianapolis plant, which builds furnaces. United Technologies has also planned to shutter a plant in Huntington, Ind. and transfer 700 jobs south of the border. It was also unclear Tuesday whether they still intend to do so. > > **Chuck Jones, president of the United Steelworkers 1999, which represents Carrier employees, said neither Trump nor Carrier involved the union in the process.** That’s nice, don’t involve the people who will take it in the ass in the talks about their future. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/13 "2016-11-30T04:21:22Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > [Link](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html) > > According to the NYT, Carrier will keep about half the jobs it was slated to move in the US. Thoughts? Great news, of course. I promise will henceforth completely ignore all of Mr. Trump’s many failings as a person and lustily cheer him on for managing to arm-wrestle Carrier into only getting rid of a thousand US jobs. > [@](#): > > Good job not letting political bias jaundice the way you see this story. We are, sadly, imperfect beings and can only strive to emulate your admirable lack of bias where Mr. Trump is concerned, as you have exhibited in so many posts. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/14 "2016-11-30T04:31:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And you fail to see that the Great Negotiator failed to protect those jobs he promised to. > Why not just threaten Carrier with all sorts of regulatory/tax/import tariff impediments? > That’s what he promised, remember? Or is your bias blinding you? Parroting back the mirror image of what’s said to you is a weak form of argumentation. Losing 1,000 jobs is preferable to losing 2,000. Agree or disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/15 "2016-11-30T04:34:53Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Great news, of course. I promise will henceforth completely ignore all of Mr. Trump’s many failings as a person and lustily cheer him on for managing to arm-wrestle Carrier into only getting rid of a thousand US jobs. Of course nobody is suggesting this means Trump is beyond criticism, but don’t let that keep you from throwing up stawmen. > [@](#): > > We are, sadly, imperfect beings and can only strive to emulate your admirable lack of bias where Mr. Trump is concerned, as you have exhibited in so many posts. So it’s okay when your side does the same thing you criticize your opponents for. Copy that. Also, I invite you to quote the post where I praised Trump. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/16 "2016-11-30T04:44:04Z")
Carrier was pretty far into the process of shifting production to Mexico. It’s wonderful that a 1,000 American jobs are being saved. Great news for the workers, their families, and the city of Indianapolis. [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/94638152/?client=ms-android-motorola](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/94638152/?client=ms-android-motorola) > [@](#): > > Whatever the terms of the deal turn out to be, they will be better than the bleak exodus of jobs that Indianapolis had spent months preparing for. > > Carrier in February announced that it would begin layoffs next year and shutter its Indianapolis factory in three waves through 2019 as part of a larger reorganization that also includes the closing of Huntington-based United Technologies Electronic Controls. The company did not say whether any additional jobs would be saved in Huntington. I wish all 2,000 could have been saved. But this thing already had momentum that couldn’t be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/17 "2016-11-30T04:47:38Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Parroting back the mirror image of what’s said to you is a weak form of argumentation. > > Losing 1,000 jobs is preferable to losing 2,000. Agree or disagree? Of course it’s preferable but it’s not what he said he’d do. He promised to fight for those jobs. He promised tough punishments on companies that outsource. He promised to bring back jobs, not reduce the number that left. And on his first negotiation, he caved. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/18 "2016-11-30T04:48:50Z")
How much tax money did we promise to give to Carrier for each job? Like, is it a million dollars per job? Two million? I’m sure they got a pretty sweet deal. It’s easy to get companies to promise to keep jobs in America if you hand them bucketloads of tax money to do so. The only problem is that taxes have to go up for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/19 "2016-11-30T04:58:10Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How much tax money did we promise to give to Carrier for each job? Like, is it a million dollars per job? Two million? I’m sure they got a pretty sweet deal. > > It’s easy to get companies to promise to keep jobs in America if you hand them bucketloads of tax money to do so. The only problem is that taxes have to go up for the rest of us. Whatever it costs, it will be more than the government takes in from income taxes paid by the remaining workers. It’s a symbolic victory that exposes the true “art of the deal”…image trumps reality. Don’t bother with rational analysis and facts. The Trump zone is completely immune. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431/20 "2016-11-30T05:01:21Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Losing 1,000 jobs is preferable to losing 2,000. Agree or disagree? Without knowing what concessions were made to halve the losses, who knows? Will losing “only” 1000 jobs mean the total number employed is reduced by only 1000, or will keeping _these_ 1000 mean that some other thousand somewhere else lose theirs instead? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrier-to-keep-jobs-in-us/773431.md?page=2)