# Carrying a Sign That Says 'Free Sex'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 22, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662 "2019-09-22T21:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/21 "2019-09-23T19:37:19Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > As I understand it, a woman can have sex with a man and then charge him for “signing a Non-disclosure Agreement.” I predicted a while back that sex workers would simply begin carrying various forms promising not to talk about specific acts, and charging set amounts for signing one. Apparently this has not been happening. You can’t generally get out of legal trouble via loopholes like this, because the law looks at the totality of circumstances, not specific magic words. Like, there’s a similar sort of loophole for the production of pornography. It’s legal to produce, and involves paying people to have sex on camera. But you can’t get out of a prostitution charge by setting up a camera because the court is not so easily fooled. It will investigate whether you were actually producing pornography for sale or whether you were trying to do an end run around prostitution law. Judges don’t like it when you are trying to do an end run around the law. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/22 "2019-09-23T21:32:40Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > You can’t generally get out of legal trouble via loopholes like this, because the law looks at the totality of circumstances, not specific magic words. > > Like, there’s a similar sort of loophole for the production of pornography. It’s legal to produce, and involves paying people to have sex on camera. But you can’t get out of a prostitution charge by setting up a camera because the court is not so easily fooled. It will investigate whether you were actually producing pornography for sale or whether you were trying to do an end run around prostitution law. > > Judges don’t like it when you are trying to do an end run around the law. This is why you have your friend the fixer do it. You didn’t pay her for the sex, and he gave her money but didn’t get sex, so it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/23 "2019-09-23T22:45:17Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > As I understand it, a woman can have sex with a man and then charge him for “signing a Non-disclosure Agreement.” It seems to me that would be extortion. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/24 "2019-09-24T02:00:26Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > It seems to me that would be extortion. Not if you’re Trump, apparently ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/25 "2019-09-24T02:10:28Z")
I better stop charging 5 cents for my mustache rides. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/26 "2019-09-24T10:50:01Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Not if you’re Trump, apparently Offering money for someone to sign an NDA is OK. Threatening to publish information unless someone pays \*you \*to sign an NDA is not OK. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/27 "2019-09-24T16:44:38Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > This is why you have your friend the fixer do it. You didn’t pay her for the sex, and he gave her money but didn’t get sex, so it’s all good. I mean, or you do it directly. I have to imagine that the vast majority of prostitution goes undetected and is unprovable in court. But if the “prostitute” you chose is a cop, and she presents you with an array of NDAs for different acts at different prices (as is the style in our hypothetical), “we were just negotiating the terms of disclosure” is going to be an ineffective legal defense. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/28 "2019-09-24T16:48:44Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I was in a bar this spring and a woman stood up, cleared her rheumy throat, then made an announcement to all. Apparently, she had walked to the bar earlier that day and with closing time looming, she was looking for a ride home, ~1.5 miles up the road. > > She made her announcement and it was followed by silence, so she “sweetened the pot” by adding, “I’ll make it worth your while”. > > Long after some dude left with her, we continued to discuss whether or not her offer amounted to prostitution. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Probably. Most states don’t require money to be involved to trigger their laws against prostitution. An exchange of a sexual act for something of value would do it. And a DA would have a pretty easy time establishing a ride home as a thing of value; there are businesses that provide that service. > > The agreement was also made in advance so that would qualify it. The only issue which isn’t clear is what act resulted from the promise of it being “worth your while”. But generally states establish a pretty broad interpretation of what constitutes a qualifying sexual act for the purposes of a sex crime. I’m not a criminal lawyer, but I doubt very much that a ride home would be considered of sufficient value to make that transaction into prostitution. That would make a lot of ordinary interpersonal exchanges into prostitution. > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > You can’t generally get out of legal trouble via loopholes like this, because the law looks at the totality of circumstances, not specific magic words. > > Like, there’s a similar sort of loophole for the production of pornography. It’s legal to produce, and involves paying people to have sex on camera. But you can’t get out of a prostitution charge by setting up a camera because the court is not so easily fooled. It will investigate whether you were actually producing pornography for sale or whether you were trying to do an end run around prostitution law. > > Judges don’t like it when you are trying to do an end run around the law. Pornography is not a loophole, and it’s not dependent on whether you’re selling anything. It’s question of the intent and the relationships between the participants. Are they all co-equal performers or is one of them being paid for sex, and is one of them paying for sex? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/29 "2019-09-24T17:49:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m not a criminal lawyer, but I doubt very much that a ride home would be considered of sufficient value to make that transaction into prostitution. That would make a lot of ordinary interpersonal exchanges into prostitution. Wait, what? Are you saying that if a prostitute wants $50, but is talked down to $5, then there is no crime? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/30 "2019-09-24T20:27:29Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Wait, what? Are you saying that if a prostitute wants $50, but is talked down to $5, then there is no crime? No, I’m saying “If you give me a ride home, I’ll make it worth your while” is not prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/31 "2019-09-25T16:00:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Pornography is not a loophole, and it’s not dependent on whether you’re selling anything. It’s question of the intent and the relationships between the participants. Are they all co-equal performers or is one of them being paid for sex, and is one of them paying for sex? I think we mostly agree here and are quibbling over details. Attempting to claim that you were involved in the production of pornography when you really are just trying to pay for sex and use pornography as a cover is trying to use it as a loophole. No, it is not dependent on you selling it, but that’s one thing that a court will look at to see if you are engaged in the bona fide production of pornography. Another, as you mention, is whether all performers are being paid. But, presumably, that’s not ironclad either, as a producer/director/cameraman/star couldn’t be one and the same person, and would not pay himself. Again, my point is not to go into the details of how pornography is different than prostitution, but to show that you can’t get out of a prostitution charge with a _pretense_ like aiming a camera at the act or negotiating over NDAs. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/32 "2019-09-25T16:21:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, I’m saying “If you give me a ride home, I’ll make it worth your while” is not prostitution. Yes. I once offered to take out the garbage if my girlfriend would make love with me. She agreed. That’s not prostitution by any stretch of the imagination. Addenda: I didn’t actually enforce this because I didn’t want to give the appearance of any coercion, but she was agreeable, more or less. As soon as I got back from the dumpster, she was taking her socks off. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/33 "2019-09-25T16:39:10Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > As I understand it, a woman can have sex with a man and then charge him for “signing a Non-disclosure Agreement.” I predicted a while back that sex workers would simply begin carrying various forms promising not to talk about specific acts, and charging set amounts for signing one. Apparently this has not been happening. That sounds like a pretty good idea, but for the implied threat of it all. Telling a John to sign this and pay me this or I’m tellin’, sounds like bad business. I’m not sure pimps would agree to that practice. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/34 "2019-09-25T20:07:34Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > As soon as I got back from the dumpster, she was taking her socks off. Some weird sex you must be having. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/35 "2019-09-25T21:16:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Some weird sex you must be having. 🙂 Your SO leaves her socks on? You got a freak on your hands, yo. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662/36 "2019-09-26T18:29:59Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Your SO leaves her socks on? You got a freak on your hands, yo. My SO is my sock, so I guess so. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-a-sign-that-says-free-sex/840662.md?page=1)