# Carrying firearms for defense against an aggressive bear? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420 "2024-04-17T18:37:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/81 "2024-04-20T20:28:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If it started to approach we’d fire a round to make noise. Locals have told us that that almost always discourages further approach. > > Only if we were being charged or otherwise directly and immediately threatened would we shoot the actual bear. And yes, we are aware that guns are not magic wands and merely wounding a bear can further provoke it. > > There is other wildlife there that could potentially pose a risk. All wise ideas. Mind you , I have been told by experts that a .44 magnum will work on bears. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > People seem to be extremely anxious to use guns for everything, when brains are what’s needed. When I lived in the West where rattlesnakes are common, I just kept an eye out for them. They rattle, you know. Just go around them. Killing animals just because they scare you is cowardly machismo at its worst. Well, cowboys kinda had to, since the herd of horses of cattle might well not be thinking smart and get bit. But if you see a rattler, no other reason to kill it. I used, as a volunteer ranger, just scoop them off the trails with my long walking staff. In some areas I did carry a sidearm while hiking- but that was more for the worlds most dangerous mammal- Homo Sapiens. In one trail area that had been several attacks. However, I never needed it. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > A 45-70 in a rifle would be best. I was told a 12 gauge shotgun, with buck and slugs. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/82 "2024-04-21T14:04:01Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > A 45-70 in a rifle would be best. But still, if you have a handgun of any caliber you would probably feel better shooting the bear while it kills you. At least you have something. > [@enipla](#): > > Yeah, that’s a cannon. My .356 is basically a .308 necked up to 35 caliber. Should be good enough I think. Under such circumstances that I would have to use it to save my self, I may have a 50/50 chance of making the shot. Better than no chance at all. For all the reasons stated in my OP, the choice for what to carry is _not_ between a firearm or nothing, which studies have shown to be equally effective (or ineffective, depending on how you look at it). Instead, you could consider carrying bear spray instead. > [@DrDeth](#): > > …I have been told by experts that a .44 magnum will work on bears. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I was told a 12 gauge shotgun, with buck and slugs. I feel like this discussion has devolved into “I’ve been told” hearsay regarding what caliber of round is sufficient to take down a bear. That wasn’t really the point of my OP. Again, the issue is not simply the size of the round. It’s being able to get one or more aimed shots off before the bear is in your face. And even if a .44 magnum or 12 gauge shotgun “will work on bears,” will it take the bear down fast enough before you are killed or seriously injured? > [@DrDeth](#): > > In some areas I did carry a sidearm while hiking- but that was more for the worlds most dangerous mammal- Homo Sapiens. That is a different matter entirely. Personally, I have never felt the need to do this. I might feel differently if I were in a dangerous area, but I think I would rather simply avoid the area entirely instead. FWIW, I did see a hiker in Alaska with his wife and child on the trail with a massive handgun in a holster on his hip…probably a .44 magnum. He is actually the only person I’ve ever seen on a hike who was armed. I remember thinking that if he was carrying this for protection against bears that he would be better served by carrying bear spray instead. But some people just like to carry guns. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Humans appearing large and loud it your best bet. With respect to bears, this holds true for the smaller black bears. However, my understanding is this is not a good idea if you are confronted with a brown (grizzly) bear. You don’t want to look large and threatening because this could provoke the bear to attack. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/83 "2024-04-21T14:26:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > > > A 45-70 in a rifle would be best. > > I was told a 12 gauge shotgun, with buck and slugs. Why screw around? [![](https://content.osgnetworks.tv/firearmsnews/content/photos/Tyrannosaurus-2-Bore-Rifle-1.jpg) ](https://content.osgnetworks.tv/firearmsnews/content/photos/Tyrannosaurus-2-Bore-Rifle-1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/84 "2024-04-21T19:29:38Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Why screw around? What caliber is that weapon? 50? Larger? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/85 "2024-04-21T19:57:32Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > What caliber is that weapon? According to the name of the image that’s a 2 bore, which has a barrel diameter of roughly 1.3 inches (according to Mr. Google, I don’t have a conversion chart handy). A weapon’s “caliber” is just the barrel’s internal diameter. ETA: Wikipedia has an article on 2 bore: > **[2 bore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_bore)** > > Two bore or 2 bore is an obsolete firearm caliber. > Two bore firearms generally fire spherical balls or slugs made of hardened lead, or in the case of a modern metallic cartridge with either solid brass or bronze projectiles. The nominal bore is 1.326 inches (33.7 mm), and projectiles generally weigh 8 ounces (227 grams; 3500 grains). The velocity is relatively low, at around 1,500 feet per second (460 m/s) at the muzzle, but develops approximately 17,500 ft⋅lbf (23,700 J) muzzle energy. > Despit... ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/86 "2024-04-21T20:05:00Z")
More info on that particular rifle: > **[The Tyrannosaurus 2-Bore: Most Powerful Sporting Rifle - Firearms News](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/tyrannosaurus-2-bore-rifle/365185)** > > Since the 2 bore is the most powerful sporting rifle ever made, it is only fitting that it would honor the most powerful predator of all time, the Tyrannosaurus Rex. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/87 "2024-04-21T20:05:43Z")
I recall an episode of some R. Lee Ermey show where they showed a 50-caliber handgun for hunters who encounter bears. It had to be a revolver because a semiautomatic would require the same hand-pull on the slide as its recoil to chamber the first round. They had slo-mo footage of Ermey’s forearm rattling as he fired it. Another show, one of those “Holy Crap, How Did I Survive That?” had a camper whose head had been knawed on by a polar bear. His group had neglected to hire a heavily armed Inuit guard as required by Canadian law. Japanese climber has a meet and greet with Bruno: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/R2KEWofvmss/hqdefault.jpg "Watch moment rock climber fights off bear on mountain cliff edge") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2KEWofvmss) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/88 "2024-04-21T20:21:29Z")
> [@robby](#): > > FWIW, I did see a hiker in Alaska with his wife and child on the trail with a massive handgun in a holster on his hip…probably a .44 magnum. He is actually the only person I’ve ever seen on a hike who was armed. I remember thinking that if he was carrying this for protection against bears that he would be better served by carrying bear spray instead. Now, I cheerfully admit that non-veterans might well not get the gun out and be accurate. But will they be able to get the bear spray out in time then? It is a larger spray so less need for accuracy, true. But again, a shot in the air will send most animals scampering away. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/89 "2024-04-21T21:00:20Z")
For a few years some local folks tried their luck raising ostrich. They all eventually gave up or went bankrupt. I did learn while helping one “rancher” that if an ostrich cock attacks you, the correct response is to lay down on the ground, face down. The bird might trample you, but you’ll just be bruised., maybe suffer some rib fractures. As a standing target they will kick forward and down, potentially disemboweling you with their sharp toenail. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/90 "2024-04-21T21:40:41Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The bird might trample you, but you’ll just be bruised., maybe suffer some rib fractures. As a standing target they will kick forward and down, potentially disemboweling you with their sharp toenail. Large birds, particularly cassowaries, will jump up and kick you in the stomach and eviscerate you. Ripping open your belly and spilling your guts out. Dinosaurs are not extinct. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/91 "2024-04-21T22:57:15Z")
Not even a little bit: > **[Birds and Dinosaurs](https://xkcd.com/1211/)** > > Sure, T. rex is closer in height to Stegosaurus than a sparrow. But that doesn't tell you much; 'Dinosaur Comics' author Ryan North is closer in height to certain dinosaurs than to the average human. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/92 "2024-04-22T01:05:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Not even a little bit: Because Sir Richard Owen had really no idea what he was doing. he thought Ornithischia and Saurischia were all big giant lizards. But yes, Birds are part of the order Saurischia. By trying to lump those two together under “dinosaur”, technically birds are dinosaurs in one -and the most common- system of organization. But Owen was totally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/93 "2024-04-22T14:05:17Z")
odd about your post, recently MSNBC has been carrying ads for "pistols that stop bears ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/94 "2024-04-22T20:17:53Z")
I stand by a sawed-off 12 gauge loaded with magnum hollow point slugs. A). It makes a hell of a bang when it goes off, much louder than a handgun (I’ll admit I’ve only ever shot 9mm’s) B). If you hit the bear with 1.5 ounces of hollow point lead with a magnum load, that bear is gonna feel it. And it is definitely going to leave a sizable mark/hole Downsides are: A). You can only have 3 shells in the magazine (Candian law). You can have 1 in the chamber, but I don’t like walking around like that B). It is heavier and a bit more awkward than a handgun MtM ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/95 "2024-04-23T01:24:14Z")
> [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](#): > > I stand by a sawed-off 12 gauge loaded with magnum hollow point slugs… I strongly disagree. Against a bear, you want to punch deep, so a full metal jacket round is your friend. Hollow-points negate penetration in favor of larger wound cavities. Good tactic if your target is built like a person or a deer. Bad tactic if your target has a foot of fur, muscle and fat to soak up the hollow-point before reaching vital organs. In short, I think using a hollow-point against a bear is likely to result in a wounded, pissed-off bear that is going to make you a statistic. All that is assuming you actually hit the bear in the heat of the moment at close range. Or you could consider bear spray, in which the bear is not wounded but does want to get away from the irritant. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/96 "2024-04-23T12:22:07Z")
> [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](#): > > You can only have 3 shells in the magazine (Candian law). I do not use our shotgun for hunting, so I’ve removed the plug that limits the magazine to 3. I’m in the US, though. Is a sawed off shotgun legal to possess in Canada? I’ve shot targets with a sawed off, but I had the impression it was illegal to possess in the US. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/97 "2024-04-23T12:57:26Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](#): > > > > You can only have 3 shells in the magazine (Candian law). > > I do not use our shotgun for hunting, so I’ve removed the plug that limits the magazine to 3. I’m in the US, though. Is a sawed off shotgun legal to possess in Canada? I’ve shot targets with a sawed off, but I had the impression it was illegal to possess in the US. Years ago I bought a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun for home defense. It was marketed as a turkey gun and so had a shorter barrel—either 20 or 22 inches, I think. (It is illegal in the U.S. to possess shotguns with a barrel shorter than 18 inches.) I also didn’t use it for hunting, so I also removed the plug which limited the number of shells in the magazine. Anyway, I’m sure it would work fine for turkeys. And home defense. But not bears. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/98 "2024-04-23T19:34:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’ve shot targets with a sawed off, but I had the impression it was illegal to possess in the US. There is a minimum barrel length. As long as your sawing doesn’t shorten it more than that it can be legal. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/99 "2024-04-23T19:52:28Z")
And when the Feds got that law approved back in 1934, they picked a length that outlawed many of the severely shortened shotguns popular with the mobsters of the day. An 18"+ barrel shotgun is distinctly short looking compared to conventional hunting or sport-shooting shotguns. But is also far longer than the large bore almost-pistols of the Prohibition era mobsters. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420/100 "2024-04-23T20:45:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > the large bore almost-pistols of the Prohibition era mobsters. When I was a kid (13?) one of my dad’s coworkers came out to visit us “in the country”. He brought a bunch of his guns to target shoot. The legal guns were in the car on the backseat. The illegal guns were in his trunk, hidden in a cool compartment that you’d never guess was there. I went with them for a hike to where a backstop naturally existed. The guy handed me the sawed off 12 gauge and told me to go ahead and take the first shot. He suggested I shoot gangster style, with the gun at my hip. I’d fired shotguns before, and thought firing from the hip would save me from the bruised shoulder I had suffered previously with regular shotties. I hit my target (a hillside) but I was a skinny kid and got knocked back on my ass. To their credit, my dad and his coworker didn’t laugh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carrying-firearms-for-defense-against-an-aggressive-bear/1000420.md?page=6)