# Cars are a luxury item (and you might be in a bubble) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041 "2026-09-13T17:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/181 "2026-09-21T14:59:59Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > There’s nothing quite like living in a place like China or Japan, where you can just take for granted that you can get anywhere, cheaply and quickly. And as Tokyo Bayer noted above, this is only true for Tokyo and Osaka. Just as if you live in Manhattan. In my experience you can just barely get by in Kyoto, but anything more rural than that and everybody has a car and drives. It takes a very high population density to support that level of public transit, and some of us don’t want to live packed in cheek to jowl like that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/182 "2026-09-21T15:00:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The NYC system _in/on Manhattan_ doesn’t need to expand by new routes. Because the island is already full. There is zero empty land. Zero. > > It may well need to expand capacity on existing routes due to smaller residential buildings being replaced with taller ones, or with now-dead industrial sites turned into housing. But you increase capacity by more trains running closer together. Which includes signalling upgrades and such. > > For sure the burbs in all 3 states only keep expanding outwards. At the same time, the fraction of people living in each of those burbs who works on Manhattan only declines with increasing distance. Those areas need local transit too. Which, as with every suburban-based area in every country, becomes a very expensive proposition to achieve useful transit density in space and in time across a non-dense geography. People forget NYC is a huge area that covers more than just Manhattan. Bus and subway coverage in and between Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx is generally pretty good. Staten Island’s kind of hit or miss. But even within NYC it gets harder to take public transportation everywhere, the further you get from Manhattan. It may take me over well an hour to get to my friend’s house in Bay Ridge Brooklyn via the R train. If I want to take the family to the NY Botanical Garden or Bronx Zoo, I could take the subway or Metro North, but it’s much easier to drive. Outside of the five boroughs, unless you live in Hudson County (Jersey City, Hoboken, Weehawken, Union City ,etc) which is a de facto sixth borough of New York and a city unto itself of 750k people with its own public transportation networks, most public transportation is designed to go in and out of Manhattan. Years ago people at my firm called me “Plains Trains & Automobiles” because for several months I had to take every form of transportation to commute from Hoboken, NJ to a client in White Plains NY (about 35 miles). I’d walk to a ferry to a bus to Metro North to a company shuttle or Uber. Some days I’d just drive my own car. And every 2 weeks I had to fly down to Atlanta which was its own headache. I encountered the same problems with I lived in Boston. The T is great (-ish) if you work downtown and live in Back Bay or Cambridge where it takes you in and out of the city on a regular basis. But if you live and work around the 128 loop that circles the city the only way to get around is to drive a car around Rt 128. It doesn’t take that much distance for public transportation to be unusable. I’m frequently given the option of working in Manhattan or Jersey City because technically JC is closer. Problem is the PATH station is a mile away, meaning I need to take another shuttle bus just to get to the PATH. I’m between Hudson-Bergen Light Rail stops which are like a mile apart so that’s out unless it’s a nice day. I’m sure people who design these things have all sorts of formulas to try and figure out given a population X with a density of Y requires public transportation nodes Z yards apart to cover Γ squared destinations α miles away or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/183 "2026-09-21T15:36:53Z")
Well I guess I’m more familiar with China, where intercity transport is excellent and virtually all towns have great transport within. It’s true of course if you go somewhere very rural you might well need a car or taxi, and yes China’s higher population density helps a great deal. I’m just saying, if youre imagining it as only having good public transport inside the biggest part of the biggest cities, that’s just not how it is. Eg you could take a 220mph train from yibin (third tier) to luzhou (third tier). This would be like a line between Tulsa and Oklahoma. ---
**Author:** ![ThisOneGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@ThisOneGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisOneGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/184 "2026-09-21T16:03:02Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Eg you could take a 220mph train from yibin (third tier) to luzhou (third tier). This would be like a line between Tulsa and Oklahoma. And Japan is great for getting around between towns, say taking the Shinkansen from Osaka to Kurashiki. But getting around Kurashiki once you’re there is where you want a car. There are local trains and busses, but the schedule means you end up with the 30-45 minute wait same as in the suburban US. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/185 "2026-09-21T16:15:41Z")
Our 28 year old daughter in Chicago has never gotten a license and doesn’t plan to. Her wife can drive, but gave up her car when they moved in together. Our 26 year old son lives in Ithaca, NY and paid cash for a Honda Fit that had belonged to a car share company. His fiance is making payments on a used car. In our 30 years together my wife and I have only bought one new car. I drive a 2014 Sonata with about 150k miles, and we just got a 2019 Mazda CX-5 with a little under 60k miles. When I give up my post-retirement substitute teaching gig I don’t know that we’ll need 2 cars anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/186 "2026-09-21T16:46:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The NYC system _in/on Manhattan_ doesn’t need to expand by new routes. Because the island is already full. There is zero empty land. Zero. > > It may well need to expand capacity on existing routes due to smaller residential buildings being replaced with taller ones, or with now-dead industrial sites turned into housing. But you increase capacity by more trains running closer together. Which includes signalling upgrades and such. The Second Avenue Subway was a much-needed response to extreme rush-hour crowding on the 4/5/6 line, which provided the _only_ uptown-downtown service on the East Side for decades after the Second and Third Avenue Els closed down. (And the crowding will likely remain an ongoing problem south of the East 50s until the city finishes extending the Second Avenue line to its planned terminus downtown.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/187 "2026-09-21T16:53:52Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > > [@steronz](#): > > > > The **average age** of new cars (passenger cars + light trucks) in the US is almost **13 years old** , the highest it’s ever been. > > What does this really mean? How can a new car be 13 years old? Did you mean to say the average age of all cars? Or the average age of a car on its first owner? Or something else? See [post #112](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/112), where the OP clarified in response to similar queries that they meant to say “cars on the road” at present, not “new cars”. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/188 "2026-09-21T21:01:44Z")
> [@ThisOneGuy](#): > > And as Tokyo Bayer noted above, this is only true for Tokyo and Osaka. Even in 1982 and 1983 when I lived there, Hiroshima, Kure, and my little town of Yakiyama were fine. Never needed our car, wife used for some teaching jobs but could have gone without. Bus, bike, train, ferry, hydrofoil were daily options. Recent visits in 2014 and 2015 had subway, street car/light rail and bus routes greatly expanded. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/189 "2026-09-22T01:45:22Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If I want to take the family to the NY Botanical Garden or Bronx Zoo, I could take the subway or Metro North, but it’s much easier to drive. Not my experience. There’s traffic, and then you need to park. I was happy to take my family (and me) to both those places by public transit. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/190 "2026-09-22T01:47:54Z")
About the only place I would consider taking transit rather than my car is a straight trip downtown, because it’s direct and because parking is a hassle. Everywhere else it isn’t even close. ETA: okay, one other place: the airport if I was going by myself, since it’s only one transfer, I wouldn’t leave my car there, and taxis there are stupendously expensive. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/191 "2026-09-22T11:52:57Z")
I lived around 120th Street, in Manhattan. It was pretty easy to hop on a train to get to Brooklyn or the Bronx. I also choose the subway to get to work downtown (near Wall Street) and to get to the cloisters at the North end of Manhattan, and to my obstetrician up at Columbia Presbyterian. If I’d gone into labor at work, i would have taken the A train, because it’s express and what with traffic, that would have been faster and more reliable than a cab. I actually went to deliver at 3am, when the trains don’t run frequently, and there’s no traffic, so we took a cab. Of course, cabs were a huge nuisance with little kids, because we had to install the car seats, and then lug those car seats around wherever we went. Now they make car seats that can be converted to strollers, which would have helped, but that product hadn’t been invented when i had little kids. So we basically never took cabs as a family. If it wasn’t a long enough trip to be worth renting a car (like visiting my parents) it wasn’t worth the hassle of the car seats. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/192 "2026-09-22T13:42:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Not my experience. There’s traffic, and then you need to park. I was happy to take my family (and me) to both those places by public transit. Not so great if you live in NJ. I have to come all the way into the city, get to Midtown, then take the train or subway up to Fordham. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/193 "2026-09-22T15:02:43Z")
Oh, yeah, that’s totally different. I lived in two apartments, but both were in Manhattan. The one i was in longer was 120th and Amsterdam. Excellent access to subway and bus. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/194 "2026-09-22T15:09:06Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Of course, cabs were a huge nuisance with little kids, because we had to install the car seats, and then lug those car seats around wherever we went. The existence of infant/child car seats and laws about their use (neither of which existed when I was a child) is another example of the ways in which the dominance of the modern private automobile has forced on people levels of risk and restriction in daily life that they unthinkingly accept as natural and inevitable. Try asking a young child how much more “free” and “independent” they feel being strapped into a car seat alone in the back of the car than riding with Mommy or Daddy on the bus or subway where they can wriggle and twist, stand up, sit in a lap, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/195 "2026-09-22T15:20:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Anybody sane, not impoverished, and who isn’t ideologically motivated, who lives/works where parking is available is almost always going to choose to drive themselves. This is uniquely American (and a few other car-centric places). Even the rich people take public transit in, say, Toronto. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/196 "2026-09-22T16:14:38Z")
or heck, parking was _available_ when I commuted downtown, it was just expensive. But all-in, it didn’t cost much more than parking locally and taking the commuter rail. I chose the commuter rail because it was a lot more pleasant than fighting traffic every day. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/197 "2026-09-22T16:30:43Z")
I have seen urban parking solutions where you stop your car on a pallet and the automated system takes it away above or underground. That is still taking up space for a garage that could be used for something else, though. In any case, yours is a good reminder that even if the public transportation does not always go conveniently right to your block, often you can ride your car (or bicycle!) to the station and switch to light or heavy rail to go downtown. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/198 "2026-09-22T16:42:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > where they can wriggle and twist, stand up, sit in a lap, etc. Kids used to do that in cars, we just didn’t give a fart whether it was hazardous. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/199 "2026-09-22T16:44:25Z")
I remember! I’m not saying that mandatory child safety restraints are at all a bad thing, just that they’re one of the indicators of how hazardous car travel is. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/200 "2026-09-22T16:50:36Z")
You know … Kids these days aren’t as into cars as previous generations. A lot of them just use rideshare and don’t drive at all. I wonder if that’s partly because they were straightjacketed into cars as children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041.md?page=11)