# Cars are a luxury item (and you might be in a bubble) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041 "2026-09-13T17:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2026, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/141 "2026-09-19T23:28:42Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Thanks but I wasn’t addressing you. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How often do you need the “all purpose car” to do something the puttputt cannot do? Your post did not address a specific poster. It was posted as an open question. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2026, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/142 "2026-09-19T23:34:16Z")
I assumed that it would be clear that I was addressing @LSLGuy, given that I posted immediately after him. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/143 "2026-09-20T00:21:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Suffice it to say that, given that the #1 cause of death for children is motor vehicle crashes, probably the best thing we could do for child safety is not so much strapping them into ever heavier and tougher cars but rather figuring out ways to let them spend less time in cars in the first place.) When i lived in Manhattan, the mortality rate for kids in Manhattan (or maybe all of NYC, i forget) was half that of the rest of the US. And the difference was 100% because kids in NYC aren’t in cars much. They walk, they get strapped into strollers, they get dragged into buses. But they don’t spend much time in cars. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I totally agree w your point about the 2x/year boat-tow truck. So dumb. Rent that shit. I sure did. Eh, you own a status car, i own a Subaru Forester whose capacity i only need three weekends a year. Yeah, i could have just purchased a small, efficient car and rented for those weekends. But it’s a pita to rent a car. I’d need to rent it a day in advance so i could leave bright and early. I’d need to take time off work to rent. (I was working most days when i bought the car.) I’d need to juggle cars in the driveway between picking it up and ditching it (which might also be a day after i returned.) it would be another task to stress over. I convinced my husband that I’d be happier and more relaxed if that were one of our cars. At the time, our other car was mostly used by our adult daughter, so that was the primary vehicle. When she moved out, i bought the small car; i was even able to find an electric the suits most of our needs. So now the Forester is the backup car, and gets a lot less than half the family driving, except on those three trips. But we all enjoy various luxuries. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/144 "2026-09-20T00:56:53Z")
My city was certain that if the roads were made more bicycle friendly more people would bike (not counting wintertime). So in many places an entire lane of the street is now reserved as a bike lane. Result: empty bike lanes and worse auto congestion. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/145 "2026-09-20T01:04:33Z")
I’m guessing that as e-bikes continue to increase in popularity, more people will use those bike lanes. Most likely not enough to offset increased congestion in the other lanes, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/146 "2026-09-20T01:08:26Z")
There was a fad a few years ago for those two-wheel electrified scooters, but I don’t see them as much any more. Apparently there were problems. P.S.: > [@Lumpy](#): > > here in the Twin Cites (Minneapolis/St. Paul) we have Metro Mobility (I punningly call them “Metro No-Ability” 😋) Now that I’m officially a ~~senile~~ senior citizen I should look up if I qualify. Only for people disabled enough that if they drove or were driven would qualify for a handicapped parking tag. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/147 "2026-09-20T01:16:01Z")
They [ETA: scooters & e-bikes] are thick here. A point ignored in this thread so far is weather. Too hot, too cold, too wet, and anyone who can afford the respite of a climate controlled form of transport will choose it every time. I sure do. Whether that’s uber or their car. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/148 "2026-09-20T01:18:11Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But we all enjoy various luxuries. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/149 "2026-09-20T03:21:08Z")
I actually agree with you there. Most people don’t need much more than a small car. But… there are quite a few use cases that do require something other than a little “putt putt”. Families, serious gardening or DIY, or hell, just being tall require something else beyond a small car. I think the biggest thing being overlooked in the public transit cheerleading is just how much people value their independence and freedom. Riding public transit effectively gives up a big chunk of both, at least in my experience. And cars provide that, as well as dramatically more flexibility. So for most people, the combination of lack of flexibility, lack of utility (you can’t really go to the grocery store and buy groceries for a family of four using public transit), lack of independence (you’re at the mercy of the schedules), and at least around here, the low social status of taking the bus, makes it a no-go for a lot of people. But I think there are going to have to be something other than vehicles as expensive as they are now. It’s absurd. $25k should get you something better than what it does, and people shouldn’t have to take out six and seven year loans for a new car. I do think the market will adjust at some point, assuming wages don’t rise to match. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/150 "2026-09-20T03:32:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > But I think there are going to have to be something other than vehicles as expensive as they are now. It’s absurd. $25k should get you something better than what it does, and people shouldn’t have to take out six and seven year loans for a new car. I agree, but beyond the move away from smaller cars to bigger SUVs and pickups (at least by the US automakers), a part of what’s also driving those costs are safety and emissions features which make newer cars far better than they were decades ago, and far more pervasive electronics: in the general operation of the vehicle, as well as in the entertainment and climate control systems. The days of a low-end affordable “basic” car that lacked the pricier features – having manual windows, manual seat adjustments, manual transmission (which was cheaper than an automatic back then), and a simple AM radio – are unfortunately gone, at least for the U.S. market; vehicles from other parts of the world which might meet those budget criteria don’t meet U.S. safety standards. The affordable alternative may need to be something that is not technically a car. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/151 "2026-09-20T05:36:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think the biggest thing being overlooked in the public transit cheerleading is just how much people value their independence and freedom. Riding public transit effectively gives up a big chunk of both, at least in my experience. And cars provide that, as well as dramatically more flexibility. > > So for most people, the combination of lack of flexibility, lack of utility (you can’t really go to the grocery store and buy groceries for a family of four using public transit), lack of independence (you’re at the mercy of the schedules), and at least around here, the low social status of taking the bus, makes it a no-go for a lot of people. You can get your groceries using a car share, robo taxi, walking for five minutes, etc. You should not have to take a bus to get to the supermarket, though?? In any case, people whining about how they don’t feel like taking the bus is not convincing at a time when cities are, or should be, doing all they can to make sure people do not drive cars downtown. > [@bump](#): > > But I think there are going to have to be something other than vehicles as expensive as they are now. It’s absurd. $25k should get you something better than what it does, and people shouldn’t have to take out six and seven year loans for a new car. I have to agree. Driving (at least at the wrong place and time) should be unaffordable because of the congestion/pollution regulation and surcharges, not because the price of a basic car is inflated, or those kinds of cars are not manufactured (though if the problem is that nobody is selling anything like that, what can you do?) NB as for the $25k, that 1992 Honda Civic you paid $9000 for, well, inflation is an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/152 "2026-09-20T06:02:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think the biggest thing being overlooked in the public transit cheerleading is just how much people value their independence and freedom. Riding public transit effectively gives up a big chunk of both, at least in my experience. I mean, I think it depends a lot on how one defines the terms. People finding nowhere to park a car downtown aren’t really feeling more “independent” or “free” than people who hop off the bus at their destination and walk away. Same for the people dealing with their car breaking down, or struggling to pay for its gas. Same for people who, either temporarily or permanently, can’t drive, but live somewhere where there are no realistic alternatives to car transportation. Same, at present, for EV drivers desperately searching for a compatible charging station, although that will get resolved much faster as they become more widespread. There’s no question at all that the personal car, **given the huge amount of infrastructure and subsidy that the US has committed to facilitating its use,** allows way more spontaneity, flexibility, versatility and speed in transport than any other mode. It’s a huge powerful rugged climate-controlled mobile room: naturally it’s going to be able to do everything better than the alternatives, except fit into a small space or maneuver through crowded or roadless areas. (Or be affordable.) And American society for many decades has been unwaveringly spending vast amounts of resources to ensure that cars wherever possible have all the space and roads that they need, and that as many individuals as possible will take it for granted that affording a car is a top priority. The ways in which that priority rules out many **other** manifestations of independence and freedom that they might value—-since after all, money’s not infinite, and if we didn’t have the car we’d be screwed, so forget those other things you would have liked to spend on—-are simply unconsciously accepted as inevitable. Cars are incessantly advertised with the rhetoric of independence and freedom, of course. And I think a lot of people automatically take that rhetoric at face value, because we don’t talk about the costs or the alternatives. The so-called “automotive ecosystem” of car manufacturing, sales service infrastructure etc., accounts for about one dollar in twenty of the entire US GDP. There’s a **whole** lot of profit riding on the American public’s unquestioning assumption that it’s effectively impossiblly burdensome to do without a car, at least if you’re not resigned to being a miserable poverty-stricken wretch. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/153 "2026-09-20T06:23:55Z")
Follow-up: Ultimately, the source of the whole problem (at least as far as local transportation is concerned) is that **roads that were originally shared by different transport modes were modified for the convenience of heavier and faster cars, and no significant alternative roadway systems were constructed that were adequately safe for smaller and slower vehicles.** If we had micromobility pathways all over metropolitan areas that accommodated ebikes and scooters as well as human-powered vehicles, a lot of people would feel a lot more able to get around without a car. Or if, as I said, there were larger roadways that were safe for the tiny street legal puttputts, many people would be willing to use those (especially if cheap). But, again, if people want only **one** vehicle that can manage **all** their transport needs, and have only one set of roads available that all vehicles have to share, then the car/truck literally crowds out everything else. I totally get that for most people’s lives, there is literally no workable alternative to the “luxury” of dragging thousands of pounds of extremely expensive and dangerous machine around with them almost everywhere they go, and I don’t blame them in the least for doing so. I just kinda question the appropriateness of calling that “freedom”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/154 "2026-09-20T06:32:16Z")
I always had the impression that driving yourself around to get to work was a middle-class thing that people were forced into, the opposite of freedom and luxury. The wealthy and important have chauffeurs. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/155 "2026-09-20T10:06:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think urban design plays at least as much of a factor as density. If people’s destinations are scattered all over the place, it makes it hard to run an effective mass transit system. This is correct, and if the mass transit system is old enough then the destinations naturally gravitate towards the stations. I lived in Tokyo and Yokohama for more than 20 years and didn’t have a car for most of the time. It wasn’t until I took up golf that I got a car. A common misconception is that Japan has wonderful mass transit systems all over, but really the end-to-end effective mass transit is mostly in the big cities. Now I live in a small town and it’s horribly inconvenient without your own vehicle. Even small cities just don’t have the density and right layout. In larger cities, companies provide train and bus passes for their employees, but there aren’t parking spaces for cars. In fact, many employers forbid drivers from taking cars, and even if they don’t, parking is prohibitively expensive in the city. In smaller cities and towns, more places have parking for employees. I don’t see how to convert mass transit friendly cities to car friendly and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/156 "2026-09-20T10:39:20Z")
Does the bus or Uber allow you to bring your two 65lb dogs? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/157 "2026-09-20T10:42:54Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I don’t see how to convert mass transit friendly cities to car friendly and vice versa. I have seen cities put in light rail. Those can operate on existing streets. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/158 "2026-09-20T10:47:53Z")
Did you read the rest of my post? How do you respond to that? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/159 "2026-09-20T10:49:20Z")
Assuming (non-guide) dogs are allowed, I have not heard of a limit on how many you can bring… ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/160 "2026-09-20T10:52:08Z")
Given the expense of running even light rail, a smaller town may not be able to afford it. (They should be able to operate a few bus lines?) However, if it is that small and sparse, it could be that one can actually drive a car somewhere without running into gridlock and non-existent parking. Look, if you want to know where to put the bus stops, there are computer algorithms that can calculate the optimal placement. But a lot depends on the flow of passengers. If people are commuting to work along a certain axis (to a downtown area), then mass transit can help. If their trips are completely random, not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041.md?page=9)