# Cars are a luxury item (and you might be in a bubble) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041 "2026-09-13T17:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/161 "2026-09-20T12:49:59Z")
Oh man, pets are also becoming a luxury item. Insurance? Ridiculous vet fees? The price of dog food? Grooming? A vehicle big enough to transport them? Worthy of it’s own thread. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/162 "2026-09-20T13:24:31Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > You can get your groceries using a car share, robo taxi, walking for five minutes, etc. You should not have to take a bus to get to the supermarket, though?? I feel like maybe people are talking past each other? If you live in a city, no, you shouldn’t need to drive for routine groceries. When i lived in Manhattan i traveled to the place where i picked up most of my groceries by elevator. (Okay, we weren’t really supposed to use the door between the elevator and the convenience store, but it was there and it wasn’t locked.) My urban friends walk for most of their groceries, and borrow a car monthly to get bulk items at Costco. And they do that because Costco is cheaper, not because they really need to. If you live in a rural area, you will need a car. Rideshare may be feasible, or possibly delivery service. But those services, also, get less reliable as population density drops. (I’ve been to an event where the organizer told us we’d need rent a car at the airport, because rideshare is unreliable at their location, for instance.) I live in between. There’s a corner grocery store i can walk to, but they don’t stock everything, and i take a car to shop for groceries. But in my location, rideshare is completely feasible and it’s a luxury to take my own car. > [@Kimstu](#): > > People finding nowhere to park a car downtown aren’t really feeling more “independent” or “free” than people who hop off the bus at their destination and walk away. Absolutely. When i lived in Manhattan it was very freeing to not have a ton it two of metal chained to me, that i had to accommodate. I rented a car from time to time, for a trip out to “the country” and otherwise wasn’t burdened by automobiles. Of course, if you have no public transit, or shitty public transit, it’s nice to own a car. Most Americans have never lived in a place with adequate public transit. @LSLGuy , if you were in Manhattan, you would have easily accomplished your 7 errands with some combination of walking, local buses, and possibly a train (subway) if one was to something that wasn’t close to your neighborhood. And yes, a lot of that is the density. Manhattan is dense enough that a large fraction of your errands are typically within walking distance. The convenience store in our basement, the drug store across the street, the hardware shop down the road… ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/163 "2026-09-20T13:45:43Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Oh man, pets are also becoming a luxury item. Insurance? Ridiculous vet fees? The price of dog food? Grooming? A vehicle big enough to transport them? Worthy of it’s own thread. We just took a 3 week vacation. Now we board the dogs in the nicest place we can find. That was 2k. Don’t have kids though. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/164 "2026-09-20T13:50:05Z")
Geography can also be a factor in making straight-line distances unnavigable. In my city highways, but also railroad tracks and even streams and rivers, serve as barriers that have to be circumvented. There are entire neighborhoods that are effectively cul-de-sacs hemmed in on three sides, and places where you have to detour substantial distances to get to crossings. Reducing cars wouldn’t change this equation much, since emergency vehicles and especially the trucks that deliver everything our economy depends upon still need roads. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/165 "2026-09-20T13:58:15Z")
Agreed. Although inherent in the decisions is that when you’re driving and distances between, say, 1/2 mile and 10 miles are indistinguishable, you can optimize your shopping for best price, selection, etc. When walking / riding, there’s a lot more of “What can I find nearby that’s OK enough?” Just another habit to learn or unlearn depending on where one moves to or from. I have lived where I could take light rail to work. So much nicer than driving, especially on snowy days. Although the ~10 minute walk to the station and then the standing wait for the train was … brisk. And there was a small corner grocery literally just around the corner. And a larger, but still smallish one 3 blocks away. And and and. Quite walkable and I did. Where I live now is kinda similar, kinda not. I have my bank, CVS, Trader Joes, and Publix supermarket all within a block. Within a mile there is UPS, USPS, multiple dry cleaners, dozens of restaurants, bars, and specialty stores. Between feet and an e-bike I sure don’t need the car for any of that. Unless it’s stupid hot or stupid rainy. Which density here is a large part of why I’m living right here vs some other zip code in the Metroblob. I _like_ dense. But … I live right on a main boulevard that has “regular” bus service. As in once every 30 minutes. The nearest e.g. Target is 3 miles away straight down that boulevard. Just about an ideal use case for bus transit. Google tells me if I left right now it’d take 45 minutes to get to Target. Most of that time spent baking in the sun waiting for the bus to show up. Same coming home. It is inconceivable to me, as a retiree with little to do all day, to spend 90 minutes getting to and from something 3 miles away. Imagine if I had to fit a job or child care into my day too. And that’s the underlying problem for most every urban or suburban American. Transit is simply not dense enough to avoid massive time wasting. If that same bus came by every 5 minutes, so 6x as many busses and drivers needed that would work great. And if I did need to transfer to a perpendicular line to go elsewhere, the connection time would always be \< 5 minutes too. But when the perpendicular busses run once an hour, the average connection wait is 30 minutes and the worst case is 59. Per connection. Each way. As @Kimstu argues, we built our society and our cities this way and now we’re mostly stuck with it. We could built greenfield cities differently, but there are not many of those being built. Just more traditional suburbia slowly expanding outwards across the farms and forests. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/166 "2026-09-20T14:30:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > e.g. Target is 3 miles away straight down that boulevard. Just about an ideal use case for bus transit. Google tells me if I left right now it’d take 45 minutes to get to Target. So you might as well walk? Damn. And there is no car sharing or something else that is convenient? A friend of mine lives in a suburb; he normally bicycles everywhere, but he recently started a job where the office is located in a _different_ suburb. He said he is considering buying a big-ass motorcycle. [Still not a car!] ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/167 "2026-09-20T14:45:18Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > So you might as well walk? Damn. And there is no car sharing or something else that is convenient? There’s nothing like Zipcar if that’s what you mean. Nor any sort of streetside commercial bike, e-bike, or e-scooter rental / sharing like Lime. Of course Uber & Lyft are dense here. I happen to live about 3/4ths of a mile from the county line. That Target is in the other county. Fortunately the two counties cooperate and each county bus system penetrates a mile or so into the opposite county before returning. So I can pick up the other county bus from a stop a couple hundred yards from my door. If there wasn’t that overlap I’d have to take one county’s bus to the border, then wait for a connection to the other county’s bus. Same would happen if I lived another few blocks deeper into my county and hence beyond the other county’s turnaround point. The next closest Target is just under 9 miles away. Go straight up my boulevard a mile-plus from my place, then go the remaining 8-minus miles on a perpendicular boulevard. Both boulevards have bus service. Sounds easy as pie and probably convenient too. Nope. Google tells me the bus transit time between home and that Target is between 2 and 2.5 hours. One way. And the bus that runs along the perpendicular boulevard also makes some loops around other areas on side streets on the way to or from. So the actual mileage ridden is an extra 3 miles each way. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/168 "2026-09-20T16:42:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Manhattan is dense enough that a large fraction of your errands are typically within walking distance. The convenience store in our basement, the drug store across the street, the hardware shop down the road… This was always a dream of mine. I read a book when I was a little kid about a girl who lived in NYC (probably Manhattan, don’t remember now), and I absolutely loved reading about how she could go down the elevator and then outside to go to all kinds of places by walking. Sounded like heaven to me! Now, I can walk to my dentist (cool!), and there are a few walkable restaurants (my hairdresser also used to be walkable), but now I drive to get anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/169 "2026-09-20T17:00:14Z")
When I was young I tolerated long commutes, but as a result of those experiences I have made living within walking distance of as much as possible a priority. For the past 30 odd years I have been successful in that quest, including walking to work most of that time. Nevertheless, both my partner and I have found it convenient and self-justifiable to own cars (although both of our cars are over 20 years old so they’re pretty economical to own). My partner is very meticulous about conservation (she saves shower runoff for the potted plants, for example). But we both have our limits. We live a block from a rapid transit station that delivers us to both downtown big city and right into the international airline terminal directly, but my partner still asks me to drive her to the airport, a very miserable drive but I earn lots of points by indulging her. Our only real problem is the question of eventually replacing one or both cars. For the amount we drive the investment, even for a good used car, seems crazy. Uber works well for us, but I think ubiquitous autonomous driverless cars in metropolitan areas is an excellent prospect. The amount of land that could be returned to other uses is significant - all those plazas near shopping, parking structures downtown, and street parking everywhere are assets that are probably worth far more than the investment in robot cars. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/170 "2026-09-20T19:02:30Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > You can get your groceries using a car share, robo taxi, walking for five minutes, etc. You should not have to take a bus to get to the supermarket, though?? It’s my choice, not someone else’s. That’s the independence and freedom parts I’m getting at. > [@DPRK](#): > > In any case, people whining about how they don’t feel like taking the bus is not convincing at a time when cities are, or should be, doing all they can to make sure people do not drive cars downtown. Cities and governments should do _what the voters want_, not have an agenda of their own. And in a lot of the country, the choice is more car-friendly. If they’re worried about emissions or whatever, and feel like it’s worth going against the popular desire, then they need to do so with enticements and incentives, not the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/171 "2026-09-20T19:12:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Cities and governments should do _what the voters want_, not have an agenda of their own. You’d be surprised how many don’t subscribe to that premise. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2026, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/172 "2026-09-20T23:24:40Z")
I mean, it’s hardly a strict either/or, is it? Representative governments have a responsibility to serve their constituencies knowledgeably and ethically, not just mindlessly enact anything the majority happens to favor at the moment. (See also: minority group rights, informed vaccination policies, etc.) Just because most Americans like the ideal of automotive personal transportation letting them go anywhere they want anytime they want doesn’t mean that they like gridlock, traffic fatalities, high gas prices, unaffordable cars, climate-change exacerbation, involuntary isolation of elderly and others who can’t drive, constantly needing to chauffeur their non-driving dependents several times a day, or asphalt wastelands of parking lot everywhere. Voters, governments and civic organizations have a shared responsibility to make **intelligent** decisions about complex issues, by thinking seriously about the tradeoffs and compromises they involve, and how to balance different societal needs. Reflexively pouting that _”well most Americans LIKE cars so governments should just quit trying to shove car alternatives down our throats”_ is not a pathway to intelligent decisions. (To be fair, no more is rhetoric one sometimes hears along the lines of _”cars are evil and we should just get rid of them”_, which I don’t think anybody here is advocating at all.) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/173 "2026-09-21T04:03:22Z")
My post was responding to and agreeing with @msmith537 in that it’s not just population density, but also the urban layout. Large cities in Japan, such as Tokyo and Osaka have developed in such a way that you can do most things without owning cars. After I left the States, my hometown of Salt Lake City put in a light rail and it seems to have helped a lot. It helps that there are two concentrations of high traffic areas: the university and downtown which has a large mall. However, it’s not the same level as big cities in Japan, where you can get by without a car at all, or only drive on the weekends. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > If you live in a city, no, you shouldn’t need to drive for routine groceries. That depends on the city and where you live in it. That’s not the case for Salt Lake City where I grew up. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/174 "2026-09-21T04:17:32Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > NB as for the $25k, that 1992 Honda Civic you paid $9000 for, well, inflation is an issue. This is certain. [This inflation calculator](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/) indicates that, based solely on U.S. inflation rates, $9,000 in 1992 is equivalent to $21,488 in 2026. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/175 "2026-09-21T04:23:19Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > This was always a dream of mine. I read a book when I was a little kid about a girl who lived in NYC (probably Manhattan, don’t remember now), and I absolutely loved reading about how she could go down the elevator and then outside to go to all kinds of places by walking. Sounded like heaven to me! > > Now, I can walk to my dentist (cool!), and there are a few walkable restaurants (my hairdresser also used to be walkable), but now I drive to get anywhere else. I can tell you first hand it’s very cool! But there are trade offs. Namely cost and space. Which is probably a big reason why every Friday our parking lot is full of sport-utility crossovers packing up for the Jersey Shore, Poconos, Hamptons, Upstate NY or wherever else people go on the weekends. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/176 "2026-09-21T12:38:13Z")
There are websites like [this one](https://www.walkscore.com/) that let you enter an address and it will rate it on its “walkability,” which is whether grocery stores, coffee shops, parks and other places are within walking distance. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/177 "2026-09-21T13:16:00Z")
Brit here, and I don’t know how people manage to do it. My salary is comfortably over the median, yet I’m driving a 21 year old car, and still struggling to save any money. I can’t imagine deducting 3 or 4 hundred pounds out of my monthly paycheck for something shiny parked outside. I guess new car buyers must be double income and/or people who’ve paid off their mortgage. And yes I’m a big advocate for public transport but I’m aware the UK has a long way to improve, let alone the US. There’s nothing quite like living in a place like China or Japan, where you can just take for granted that you can get anywhere, cheaply and quickly. And have a beer when you arrive. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/178 "2026-09-21T13:48:15Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > My post was responding to and agreeing with @msmith537 in that it’s not just population density, but also the urban layout. Large cities in Japan, such as Tokyo and Osaka have developed in such a way that you can do most things without owning cars. I saw a YouTube video by the B1M channel (it might have been [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFpG3yf3Rxk)) that talks about why the Tokyo Metro and Subway system is so great. Part of it is that the system isn’t simply hub-and-spoke, requiring people to go to city center to transfer to another line if their destination is another suburb. Also, they are constantly expanding the system. I get the impression that hasn’t happened in New York City. The Second Avenue Subway line was one of the few added in recent decades and at enormous cost. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/179 "2026-09-21T14:25:04Z")
The NYC system _in/on Manhattan_ doesn’t need to expand by new routes. Because the island is already full. There is zero empty land. Zero. It may well need to expand capacity on existing routes due to smaller residential buildings being replaced with taller ones, or with now-dead industrial sites turned into housing. But you increase capacity by more trains running closer together. Which includes signalling upgrades and such. For sure the burbs in all 3 states only keep expanding outwards. At the same time, the fraction of people living in each of those burbs who works on Manhattan only declines with increasing distance. Those areas need local transit too. Which, as with every suburban-based area in every country, becomes a very expensive proposition to achieve useful transit density in space and in time across a non-dense geography. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2026, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041/180 "2026-09-21T14:29:34Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > The **average age** of new cars (passenger cars + light trucks) in the US is almost **13 years old** , the highest it’s ever been. What does this really mean? How can a new car be 13 years old? Did you mean to say the average age of all cars? Or the average age of a car on its first owner? Or something else? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-are-a-luxury-item-and-you-might-be-in-a-bubble/1033041.md?page=10)