# Cars waiting overlong for pedestrians/bikers at intersections **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791 "2024-04-26T13:03:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/41 "2024-04-27T13:45:18Z")
Just to be clear, that hand gesture you saw from me was my helpful way of saying that you left your coffee cup UP on the roof of your car. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/42 "2024-04-27T13:57:59Z")
I commute by bike, so Iā€™ve had plenty of experiences with this. And yes, it drives me batty. I think that one contributor to it is that people arenā€™t used to the difference in speed between bikes and cars: If youā€™re at an intersection and you see a car a certain distance away, you know that you wonā€™t be able to safely make it through the intersection before the car, so you stop and wait. And when youā€™re at the intersection and see a bike the same distance away, you subconsciously assume that itā€™s going at the same speed that the car would, and so you wouldnā€™t have time to go before it, either. I try not to get too upset about this, because the drivers are at least trying to do the polite and safe thing. Itā€™s their skills that are at fault, not their intentions. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/43 "2024-04-27T14:10:25Z")
Yep, or hereā€™s the Virginia version: [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/) Graf #3 (you would have figured that out!) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/44 "2024-04-27T14:15:15Z")
Pedestrian right of way was nearly a religion in Portland. They had a ā€œone foot off the curbā€ law, regardless if there was a crosswalk or not. Here in MSP, youā€™re lucky if people even stop for a red light. What bothers me as a driver are those people who just walk out into the intersection without seeming to look for vehicles barreling at them. > [@abcdefghij](#): > > Iā€™m with the OP. I just want people to follow the rules; donā€™t try to do me any ā€œfavorsā€. Preach it. If you have the right of way, then take it. Donā€™t make me guess what youā€™re going to do. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/45 "2024-04-27T16:22:50Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > Iā€™m with the OP. I just want people to follow the rules; donā€™t try to do me any ā€œfavorsā€. Thirded. These ā€˜politeā€™ people may not see the things you do that controls your own choices. There are rare situations that this is nice. But for the most part, be predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/46 "2024-04-27T16:36:59Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > What bothers me as a driver are those people who just walk out into the intersection without seeming to look for vehicles barreling at them. Then donā€™t drive in Denver. Jaywalking without looking is our official sport. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/47 "2024-04-27T16:37:38Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Pedestrian right of way was nearly a religion in Portland. IIRC Massachusetts has/had a similar law. As a kid from Chicago, I was shocked when I came near a marked crosswalk and a car actually stopped for me! šŸ˜µ ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/48 "2024-04-27T16:41:14Z")
Someone screwing up the flow of traffic. Iā€™ll say out loud ā€œafter you, my dear Alphonse,ā€ though I wonā€™t expect anyone to get the reference. And I wonā€™t expect everyone to be following the rules. At this point I expect that approaching cyclists will blow through stop signs, especially in groups. If theyā€™re wearing spandex the likelihood increases. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/49 "2024-04-27T17:05:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The situation in the OP happens all the time at the stop sign near my house. I try to wave the car through, but sometimes I make as if I am turning left on the sidewalk, and double back when the car goes through. Iā€™m glad of this thread because I get this a lot in my small town. I feel like I shouldnā€™t get irritated because people are trying to be nice, but FFS just GO because I am not even at the corner yet and I donā€™t want you to sit there and wait for me and I shouldnā€™t have to have turn left or pull out my phone or whatever. this happens roughly 50 times for what I see as itā€™s opposite: a driver is rolling forward into the crosswalk _while paying no attention to me actually IN the crosswalk_ because itā€™s a one way street and they want to see oncoming traffic behind the parked cars. I think both things are because these drivers are never or rarely pedestrians themselves. Iā€™d like to think any driver who also walks around their town regularly knows better. I try to remember to feel grateful I live in a walkable town!! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/50 "2024-04-27T18:18:51Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > The most awkward part for the pedestrian is figuring out just how fast to walk while the driver is politely waiting. I was stopped at a crosswalk to let a guy cross. He got about halfway across, then paused to light a cigarette. Asshole or just really craving nicotine? ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/51 "2024-04-27T20:59:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Asshole or just really craving nicotine? could be both. Iā€™ve already given this way too much thoughtā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/52 "2024-04-27T23:27:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > What bothers me as a driver are those people who just walk out into the intersection without seeming to look for vehicles barreling at them. Many times, teenagers are on their phones and oblivious to the cars around them when crossing streets. They often proceed into crosswalks with nary a worry or care. I grew up in Upstate New York, and in the cities there and in NYC if you donā€™t look out for cars, youā€™re dead. In California now, it took me awhile to adapt to pedestrians having right of way when in the crosswalk, and I must admit, it contributes to a more polite society. But as a parent raising my kids when they were little here in California, I would prefer that they grew up in a world where you have to look out for cars. I didnā€™t like that they grew up where cars are supposed to stop for you. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/53 "2024-04-28T00:06:07Z")
As a pedestrian, I prefer cars to go past and Iā€™ll cross in a clear gap. Theyā€™re the ones in a two ton screaming hunk of metal, Iā€™m just a bag of meat, and Iā€™m not in such a hurry that I canā€™t spare 30 seconds. I appreciate the courtesy, but I cannot rely on every driver to be so courteous, they are therefore inherently unpredictable, so I prefer to cross on my own terms when I am comfortable with my safety. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/54 "2024-04-28T12:34:23Z")
I read the first 20 or so posts then jumped to the end. So I may have missed some good stuff along the way. As to me as pedestrian I agree w the OP and the many others who agree w him. Drivers should just go. Iā€™m far safer when youā€™re already going away from me than sitting stationary pointed right at me. If I see this standoff developing I tend to wave them through. If that doesnā€™t work Iā€™ll walk to within 3-4 feet of the intersection, turn my back to the intersection, fold my arms, and stand there until they leave. Or in the alternative start across the street, but as I approach their car, turn to exit the crosswalk (implicit or painted) to walk _behind_ their car, not in front of it. All those things are designed to turn this into a teachable moment for them, but not in an asshatly way (I hope). The message being: ā€œI know youā€™re trying to be helpful, but youā€™re failing in spades. Hereā€™s a better way to help: just go!ā€ As a car driver I try to operate the same way Iā€™d prefer as a pedestrian. If I can go first, I do. Subject to local laws on when / where the pedestrian gains the exclusive right to cross and I _must_ wait. As to me as a bicyclist (and Iā€™m _not_ a heavy cyclist) I have the same attitude, subject to a _major_ caveat. As a car driver Iā€™m quite accustomed to bicyclists approaching a 4-way stop sign (or red traffic light) and blowing through the intersection at their cruise speed of 15 or 25 mph, never slowing down. Almost regardless of what the nearby car(s) are doing. As such, when I observe a bicycle approaching on an intersecting course, I have to assume they arenā€™t going to slow down, much less stop. So for some well-behaved cyclist who will do those things, I seem to have decided to wait way early and overlong for no good reason while youā€™d rather I simply went across in front of you long before youā€™d get there, net of your own slowing and/or stopping. Sometimes I can start with my waiting, then as I observe you slowing the 4D geometry changes and I can go in front of you more safely for both of us. But more often the cyclistā€™s decel rate means my going late would amount to too late and seem aggressive: ā€œThat stupid car saw me, waited for me to get close, then pulled out right in front of me!ā€ Thatā€™s a no-win situation. If we could reduce the percentage of cyclists who prioritize their momentum over following the laws and being collectively predictable thatā€™d be nice. Not gonna happen, and especially not around here. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/55 "2024-04-28T12:49:41Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Many times, teenagers are on their phones and oblivious to the cars around them when crossing streets. And sometimes drivers are on their phones. A story from my cousin in Denver. Stopped in her car about 2 cars back from a stop/red light. Not in a crosswalk. A pedestrian on a phone walked into the side of her car, and proceeded to get mad at my cousin. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/56 "2024-04-28T13:03:52Z")
I think a lot of the confusion is the result of drivers not realizing how hard it is to see them through their windows due to glare. Almost impossible with tinted windows. The other day a big pickup was in a driveway exiting a public works facility, completely blocking the bike path. With its dark windows, we could not even see the driver, let alone make eye contact or see a wave. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > As a car driver Iā€™m quite accustomed to bicyclists approaching a 4-way stop sign (or red traffic light) and blowing through the intersection at their cruise speed of 15 or 25 mph, never slowing down. Almost regardless of what the nearby car(s) are doing. From my frame of reference, the only bikers going over 15 MPH are somewhat serious road riders - what we call ā€œfancy pantsersā€! Iā€™d imagine they are thinking that if the motor vehicles are stopped, they can clear the intersection before the vehicles get moving. Not the mindset I would have as I putz alongā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/57 "2024-04-28T14:08:07Z")
From the OPā€¦ > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Iā€™d appreciate the experiences and opinions of folk who have experienced the scenario below either as drivers or as **bikers** /pedestriansā€¦ > (snipped) Bolding mine. A minor distinction here but Iā€™m pretty sure you meant **bicyclists** and not motorcyclists, right, @Dinsdale? To me, and this is not a hijack, a biker usually means motorcyclist more than it does a bicyclist. But I can see how biker can equate to bicyclist. From posters in this thread (all?), itā€™s pretty clear weā€™re talking bicyclists. As a motorcyclist however, I wanted to make that distinction. Signed, A proud motorcyclist ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/58 "2024-04-28T14:15:09Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Around these parts, I can treat stop signs as yields and treat red lights as stop signs (stop then go before it changes). Itā€™s called the ā€œIdaho stopā€. That doesnā€™t mean you can do so in a dangerous way, but it is legal in some states. > [Idaho stop - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop) Thank you for this. I wasnā€™t aware there was this concept, let alone a name for it. Ignorance fought! [![](https://i.imgur.com/RnbSro2.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/RnbSro2.jpeg) [![](https://i.imgur.com/vbXub5R.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/vbXub5R.jpeg) A great concept. In my younger days I bicycled everywhere, on city and country roads. At any controlled intersection, whether it was a light or a sign, as long as I could **clearly see in all directions and it was safe to do so** I would simply proceed, often without slowing at all. So thatā€™s not even an Idaho Stop, because I treated red lights as yields. I thought that was common sensical. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/59 "2024-04-28T16:17:19Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > A minor distinction here but Iā€™m pretty sure you meant **bicyclists** and not motorcyclists, right, @Dinsdale? Yes - in my usage, biker=bike rider. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791/60 "2024-04-28T16:43:16Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > To me, and this is not a hijack, a biker usually means motorcyclist more than it does a bicyclist. But I can see how biker can equate to bicyclist. ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbGZpamk5ZjRramJtc2pmYXQzODF6cWxqeHBtaDBiNGJldjVkbnNnNyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/uk2BuX36tWd1e/giphy.gif) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cars-waiting-overlong-for-pedestrians-bikers-at-intersections/1000791.md?page=4)