# Carson vs. Trump: This Could Get Interesting **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 25, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749 "2015-10-25T19:51:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/141 "2015-11-03T18:26:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m not doing that. Are you of the opinion that the type of drink, is a material fact? > > That’s just dumb. It’s utter bullshit nonsense, and I suspect the only reason you’re clinging to it so strongly is that you can’t find anything else to feebly support your position. Facts are facts. Small facts, big facts, there all facts. You may chose to ignore the fact that the LSM repeatedly got this fact wrong. Your choice. If the media can’t/won’t get the small, easily verified, items correct, how can you be certain that they’ve reported the more important issues correctly? You could demand that the LSM properly verify their stories, or you can demand that people stop questioning the piss poor vetting being done by media outlets. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/142 "2015-11-03T18:26:43Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Correction. Many people doubted Palin’s actual statement. Those people were wrong. > > “\*They’re our next-door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia, from land, here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.” \* > > That statement is correct. So on one bit of geography trivia she has it over some of her detractors. Fine. And I know when driving from Detroit to Windsor Ontario you go south. Guess that qualifies me to be ambassador to Canada. But the larger point is that this particular fact in no way gives her foreign policy experience. Maybe we should never let someone from Nebraska serve as Secretary of State because you can’t see any foreign soil from there. Maybe we should let someone who lives next to an airport head the FAA. Hey, we can all see the moon, maybe we should all be astronauts. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/143 "2015-11-03T18:30:44Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Facts are facts. Small facts, big facts, there all facts. You may chose to ignore the fact that the LSM repeatedly got this fact wrong. Your choice. > > If the media can’t/won’t get the small, easily verified, items correct, how can you be certain that they’ve reported the more important issues correctly? You could demand that the LSM properly verify their stories, or you can demand that people stop questioning the piss poor vetting being done by media outlets. I think I will make these demands you are suggesting. Then everything will be okay. Or, perhaps if I just start using a infantile term like “LSM” the media will be shamed into better fact checking. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/144 "2015-11-03T18:32:36Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Yes, Palin bumbled her way through the Katie Couric interview pretty terribly. _ **She had a point that Alaska is the only state with 2 foreign borders** _ and she, therefore must be more acutely aware of foreign policy with those nations and more closely monitor the actions of those nations than, say, the governor of Kansas. She communicated that point so badly as to be barely be understood. The criticism she got for screwing up that interview was justified. Two foreign borders? Canada is a given. But the Bering Strait, not so much. You can make a case for the Rio Grande being the border between Texas and Mexico, but if a bit of open seawater gets to count California should get to call the Pacific Ocean the border between it and Japan. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/145 "2015-11-03T18:32:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Correction. Many people doubted Palin’s actual statement. Those people were wrong. > > “\*They’re our next-door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia, from land, here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.” \* > > That statement is correct. The statement does not correctly convey foreign policy experience or expertise, as Palin suggested it did. She’s stupid for thinking so. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/146 "2015-11-03T18:34:23Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Nah, most of us just thought she was a dumbass. > > That statement is correct. Based on the comedy routines of Tina Fey? The LSM’s lack of knowledge concerning the American Revolution? Yawn. Someone lies, another swears to it, and the useful idiots believe fantasy over fact. It must be true, they read it on the internet. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/147 "2015-11-03T18:35:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Based on the comedy routines of Tina Fey? The LSM’s lack of knowledge concerning the American Revolution? Yawn. Someone lies, another swears to it, and the useful idiots believe fantasy over fact. It must be true, they read it on the internet. :smack: In one of Tina Fey’s bits she just read an actual Palin transcript. It was one of the funniest. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/148 "2015-11-03T18:37:26Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think I will make these demands you are suggesting. Then everything will be okay. > > Or, perhaps if I just start using a infantile term like “LSM” the media will be shamed into better fact checking. Why would you? You seem perfectly content with advocating for more unverified news stories. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/149 "2015-11-03T18:38:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So on one bit of geography trivia she has it over some of her detractors. Fine. And I know when driving from Detroit to Windsor Ontario you go south. Guess that qualifies me to be ambassador to Canada. But the larger point is that this particular fact in no way gives her foreign policy experience. Maybe we should never let someone from Nebraska serve as Secretary of State because you can’t see any foreign soil from there. Maybe we should let someone who lives next to an airport head the FAA. Hey, we can all see the moon, maybe we should all be astronauts. Which doesn’t change the fact that the LSM reports unverified stories. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/150 "2015-11-03T19:12:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Correction. Many people doubted Palin’s actual statement. Those people were wrong. > > “\*They’re our next-door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia, from land, here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.” \* > > That statement is correct. Since you’re such a stickler for accuracy, can you give a cite of a mainstream media source reporting that you cannot see Russia from Alaska? Hint: “Many people” is not a cite, nor is a skit on a comedy show. For example, Obama does not really turn into the Hulk and throw Boeher through the oval office window. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/151 "2015-11-03T19:24:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No one doubts that there are islands in Alaska from where you can see islands in Russia. What Sarah Palin failed to do is make the case that this geographical bit of trivia conveys foreign policy gravitas unto her. Exactly. It was meaningless, and she also showed she knew nothing about Foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/152 "2015-11-03T19:25:36Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Two foreign borders? Canada is a given. But the Bering Strait, not so much. > > You can make a case for the Rio Grande being the border between Texas and Mexico, but if a bit of open seawater gets to count California should get to call the Pacific Ocean the border between it and Japan. :dubious: Yes. The answer to the trivia question “which state borders two foreign nations” is Alaska. The Russia / US maritime border is a thing. California and Japan are separated by international waters and unless I’m forgetting a boundary dispute and subsequent boundary agreement between them, their relationship is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/153 "2015-11-03T22:05:30Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The idea that the media are all engaged in some kind of orchestrated lie about major issues is the staple of conspiracy theorists. How would you characterize the corporate media’s propaganda for the Iraq war, or demonizing of Iran, or other bogey men to frighten viewers? Is it an actual conspiracy, or is too obvious to be a CT since CTs imply secrecy? And what was that law or quip, about how if you’re familiar with a story in the papers you’re amazed at how wrong they are, but you don’t carry this amazement to other stories and assume they know what they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/154 "2015-11-03T22:22:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Based on the comedy routines of Tina Fey? The LSM’s lack of knowledge concerning the American Revolution? Yawn. Someone lies, another swears to it, and the useful idiots believe fantasy over fact. It must be true, they read it on the internet. :smack: You know why Fey’s modification of Palin’s statement was funny and resonated? Because it directly stated Palin’s implication. Do you think Palin mentioned the borders to give a geography lesson? If not, why do you think she brought it up? BTW, in the 24/7 competitive news cycle everyone in the press, left and right, has reported unverified stories. Deal with it. Jon Stewart criticized CNN for this very thing over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/155 "2015-11-03T22:28:29Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > California and Japan are separated by international waters and unless I’m forgetting a boundary dispute and subsequent boundary agreement between them, their relationship is irrelevant. Both of you forgot Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/156 "2015-11-03T22:40:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Which doesn’t change the fact that the LSM reports unverified stories. define “verified.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/157 "2015-11-03T22:58:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Widely ridiculed by whom? Assholes who have no idea, and little interest, in uncovering facts? Russia and the U.S.A. are only 2.4 miles apart. Sarah Palin, not to be confused with Tina Fey, is correct and the LSM was wrong. I guess that makes you wrong, also. \ It’s funny that in that long post you end up quoting the “LSM” to prove that “the LSM was wrong.” In any case, the point being made at that time was that Palin’s attempt to imply actual foreign policy knowledge based on the geographic separation of some obscure American and Russian islands was laughably absurd. And if many people thought Palin said “I can see Russia from my house”, it’s not the media’s fault that so many people watch entertainment shows and never watch the news. > [@marshmallow](#): > > How would you characterize the corporate media’s propaganda for the Iraq war, or demonizing of Iran, or other bogey men to frighten viewers? Is it an actual conspiracy, or is too obvious to be a CT since CTs imply secrecy? I would characterize it exactly in the words of Noam Chomsky that I quoted in #128 – that the media tend to adopt the basic framework of state and private power. > [@marshmallow](#): > > And what was that law or quip, about how if you’re familiar with a story in the papers you’re amazed at how wrong they are, but you don’t carry this amazement to other stories and assume they know what they’re talking about. I’ve often expressed that sentiment myself, and having been close to some news stories myself, I know it’s true. But it’s not a matter of “how wrong they are”, it’s more a matter of “how many of the factual details they tend to get wrong”, and this is especially true on technical matters of science and technology because the journalists often don’t understand them well enough. And on other matters like current events, they’ll get details wrong because in the rush of compiling stories about complex events against the pressure of deadlines it’s inevitable that that will happen. They tend to be a lot more accurate when taking a long-term analytical view of past events. That doesn’t mean the media is “lame” or consistently unreliable, and it certainly doesn’t make them “liberal”. If the media is perceived to have a liberal bias it’s largely because, as I said earlier, facts seem to have a liberal bias: the media will be perceived as “liberal” by the evangalical fundie because they talk about evolution as if it’s real, and the media will be perceived as “liberal” by the conservative extremist who shoots out his TV screen because the danged lib’ruls won’t stop talking about climate change. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/158 "2015-11-03T23:31:07Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Yes. The answer to the trivia question “which state borders two foreign nations” is Alaska. The Russia / US maritime border is a thing. > > California and Japan are separated by international waters and unless I’m forgetting a boundary dispute and subsequent boundary agreement between them, their relationship is irrelevant. Oh. 'k. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/159 "2015-11-04T04:26:09Z")
Actually, there is a rather tall hill (like the things they call “mountains” on the east coast) near the town of Wales which, according to the math I learned in the Pike’s Peak thread, should potentially afford a view of the tip of the Chukchi peninsula (mainland Siberia) from the tip of the Seward peninsula (mainland Alaska). On a clear day. Bring binoculars, just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749/160 "2015-11-04T13:33:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > define “verified.” “If your mother tells you she loves you, check it out with two independent sources.” - City News Bureau of Chicago \*VERIFY verb [T] \>to ​prove that something ​exists or is ​true, or to make ​certain that something is ​correct: Are you ​able to verify ​your ​account/​allegation/​report/​theory? These ​numbers are ​surprisingly high and they’ll have to be verified. [+ (that)] Under interrogation, she verified (that) the ​tapes were ​authentic.\* > **[verify](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/verify?q=verified)** > > 1. to prove that something exists or is true, or to make certain that something… \*UN- prefix › used to ​add the ​meaning “not”, “​lacking”, or “the ​opposite of” before ​adjectives, ​adverbs, ​verbs, and ​nouns: ​unrealistic unhappily ​unscrew unfairness\* > **[the UN](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/un)** > > 1. abbreviation for the United Nations: an international organization that was… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/carson-vs-trump-this-could-get-interesting/735749.md?page=9)