# Casablanca...I finally saw it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 18, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504 "2003-01-18T18:39:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/41 "2003-01-22T21:08:49Z")
I believe the trailer has that scene in it. [http://us.imdb.com/Title?0034583](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0034583) ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/42 "2003-01-22T22:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > What is it about her character that would make a man like Rick fall that madly in love in so short a time? Cheesecloth is a powerful aphrodesiac. Sua ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/43 "2003-01-22T22:47:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ludovic \* > \*\*What I can’t stand is how Sam always obsequiously calls Humphrey “Mr. Rick” \*\* I’ll add to what has already been said about this. It is not in the least bit obsequious, it is a mark of friendship and informal respect in the South. My grandfather was born, raised and lived almost all his live in rural southwest Tennessee. While never a rich or prominent man, he was always a very respected member of his community, and was addressed as “Mr. Lannie” (his first name) by everyone from sharecroppers to the mayor. My grandmother was always, “Miz. Lizzie” or “Miz Elisabeth” as well. The Mr. + First name, as well as the use of both first and last names " Good morning, Lannie Griggs," allowed for informality across class and color lines, without being so informal as to break those lines. When I go back to his hometown, and people find out I’m his grandson and am named after him (My middle name is his first), I instantly go from being “Mr. Angel” or “sir” to “Mr. Lannie” among the older generation and the better-raised members of the younger population. By better raised, I mean those kids with any sense of manners, which has taken as hard a hit “down home” as it has anywhere else. And yes, before the question come up, my grandfather referred to both the mayor and the sharecroppers (both black and white) he knew (and he knew them all) by the Mr. + First Name formula. However, we kids all had to use the Mr. + Last Name (for rich white folks and poor black folks both) until we had earned the right to refer to them informally. We wouldn’t have thought to do it any other way. I know this is a major hijack of a thread about my all time favorite movie, but it drives me nuts when benign cultural idiosyncracies are falsely turned into racist innuendo. For that matter, a great deal of objection has been raised over Ilsa’s question about “That ‘boy’ playing the piano.” At the time, it wasn’t a particulary derogatory remark, although it certainly evolved to become one and would be wholly inappropriate today. Had she intended to show any disrespect or condescention, she could have easily used that term we all know and loathe to describe him. At the time, however, it was no more offensive than saying “the black guy”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/44 "2003-01-22T23:07:12Z")
Ender, arisu: You’re on the run with your husband who is not only the man you love, but the man who awakened your idealism and your love of knowledge. You’re fleeing from the most powerful country in Europe, possibly the most powerful country in the world, and, if the Gestapo catches your husband, they will probably turn him into human shish kebab. If he’s lucky. Your own prognosis for survival may not be so good, either. After all, you are aiding the most wanted man in Naziland, and Hitler’s goons were not famous for being gentlemen You walk into a bar while on the lam and see another man you came to love during a period when you thought your husband was dead. You know you, however inadvertently, treated this man cruelly. And he holds the letters of transit that may be your only hope. You wonder, then, why Ilsa is confused to the point of asking someone else to do her thinking for her? Frankly, if you 2 guys, hell, if any of us could handle the situation half as well as she did, we would be heroes. archiveguy: I think Rick did the right thing by Sam (and not only sam, but Sascha and his other employees). He expected to be out of town very soon, and if he revealed he had those letters of transit, he had damned well better be out of town. Hell, most people wouldn’t have gone to half the lengths he did to protect their employees. I’ve had bosses that would have sold me to the Nazis for a week’s pay. To me, Casablanca is the closest thing to perfection I’ve seen in any art form. It is my favorite movie beyond question; I’ve seen it more than 20 times, and I hope to see it another 20 before I shuffle off this mortal coil. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/45 "2003-01-22T23:59:08Z")
That battle of the vocal groups scene is one hell of a powerful scene. I get a lump in my throat every time I see it. And Sidney Greenstreet was wonderful too. Just a couple of minutes on camera but a solid character none the less. Regarding Sam’s politeness to Rick. The film was set in 1941 people (and actually released in 1942). It is an unfortunate fact that America was not a classless society at that time. That Sam a man only a generation (or so) away from slavery would refer to his employer, as “Mr. Rick” was not in the least surprising. It would be inconsistent if he called him by his first name. TV ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/46 "2003-01-23T00:20:31Z")
TV, it is a term of familiarity and respect. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/47 "2003-01-23T01:01:32Z")
When my first husband and I divorced, the only thing that we quarrelled over was who got the stills from _Casablanca_. I really liked the exchanges between Peter Lorre and Bogart. If you are into collecting t-shirts, I’ve seen some for both Rick’s Cafe Americain and The Blue Parrot. The romance was no fling. You don’t get that bitter from a fling and songs aren’t that painful. _Casablanca_ was pretty much written as it was being filmed. They had planned to film two endings – the one where she goes and one where she stays. They shot the one of her leaving and never bothered to shoot the other. I was conceived while _Casablanca_ was being filmed. Unfortunately, my parents had nothing to do with the movie. 😃 [quick hijack] **FallenAngel** , I grew up in West Tennessee and also had a “Mr. Lannie” in my life too. Owned a grocery store.[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/48 "2003-01-23T01:11:48Z")
Here’s where it gets nasty. Has anyone seen the colorized version? ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/49 "2003-01-23T01:37:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*\<\< My goodness, what a series of cliches! \>\> > > Same problem I have reading Shakespeare… he writes all in cliche. \*\* My thoughts as well, **Dex**. where do you think some of those cliches came from, **Ender**?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/50 "2003-01-23T01:55:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Here’s where it gets nasty. > Has anyone seen the colorized version? \*\* Or read the sequel? [sub]I haven’t. I’m actually curious about it… [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/51 "2003-01-23T05:56:30Z")
I can’t remember the author’s name, but I once read a novel called _Casablack_ which told (kind of like _The Wind Done Gone_) the “true” story behind _Casablanca_. The “real” Rick was African-American–and rather pissed-off at the way Warner Brothers “whitewashed” his story. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/52 "2003-01-23T11:25:00Z")
**av8rmike** , I have a copy of the sequel somewhere and I started reading it once. As I recall, it wasn’t bad, but I didn’t finish it. In it, Rick and Rennault do leave Casablanca for, shall we say, cooler climates. There are somethings, however, which I will not submit myself to, and the colorized version is one of them! The movie _The Saint_ is another, FTR. As for Ilsa’s line “I can’t think anymore - you decide for both of us…”, I’ve been in situations where there has simply been too much going on in my life for me to want to make decisions, notably after I came out of the hospital for clinical depression and after I was laid off. I said something similar those times, although it was usually in response to trivial stuff like “Where shall we have dinner?” I see her as sort of a naif caught up in events beyond her control and rising to meet them. She’s had her world shattered a few times, when she thinks Laszlo dies, when she finds out he hasn’t, and, I suspect, when she first got caught up in World War II, yet she continues to carry on and make the best decisions she can, including in one case, that she’s not up to making a decision. I’ve always had a weakness for the scene with Sasha the waiter, Yvonne, and Rick. Yvonne’s trying to persuade Sasha to give her a drink, and Rick’s saying no. We hear Sasha say “Yvonne, I love you. . . . Yvonne, I love you. . . . Yvonne, I love you, but he pays me.” I’ve had a few clients I’ve pictured having that exchange with. By the way in _Which Lie Did I Tell?_, William Goldin, the guy who wrote _The Princess Bride_, both the book and the movie, makes a point about how _Casablanca_ reveals just the right amount of information about Rick’s character. Please bear with me, because, while I can remember concepts, I’m not so good with exact words. Early in the movie, Rennault asks Rick why he’s in Casablanca. Their exchange goes something like this: > [@](#): > > Rick: I came to Casablanca for the water. > Rennault: But, Casablanca is in the desert. > Rick: I was misinformed. Goldin’s point is all we know is that Rick has a past. We don’t know what it is, so we can make up anything we choose or let it remain a mystery. If he’d said something like, “Well, there was this girl in Paris who broke my heart” or “I got in trouble back in my home town,” it would make Rick sound whinier, not more multidimensional. I’ve also been known to say “I was misinformed.” on occaision. CJ ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/53 "2003-01-23T13:29:26Z")
…had a great role in CASABLANCA! He was the archetypical con-man, slightly shadey “businessman”-as Rick said, a “cutrate” parasite! Remember his arrest scene? “hide me Rick…” Then, at Capt. Renault’s office…“we can’t decide if he committed suicide or died attempting escape”. I agree, the scene where the house band plays the “MARSELLAIS” is one of the best in cinematic history! I love this flick! ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/54 "2003-01-23T13:36:07Z")
You all know, don’t you, that Ronald Reagan was also considered for the role of Rick. Can you imagine? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/55 "2003-01-23T13:40:42Z")
Would there have been a talking Mule instead of Ingrid Bergman? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/56 "2003-01-23T13:41:57Z")
Retitled “Transit Letters for Bonzo”. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/57 "2003-01-23T15:20:26Z")
Glad some folk finally started talking about Peter Lorre! **"Rick! You must do something!"** And **Canuck** and **5** - those whooshes were impressive enough to blow some papers off my desk! ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/58 "2003-01-23T15:23:11Z")
Noted. I’ll just talk about lack of caffeine yesterday and hope you buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/59 "2003-01-23T18:49:24Z")
I too saw _Casablanca_ for the first time a few days ago, and for once a film lived up to its reputation, it was terrific. But… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\*You all know, don’t you, that Ronald Reagan was also considered for the role of Rick. Can you imagine? \*\* This is a myth, according to [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/reagan.htm). > [@](#): > > The legend of Ronald Reagan as Rick Blaine springs from a press release that the Warner Bros. publicity office planted with The Hollywood Reporter. […] At the time of this press release, [the producer] had not yet made any casting decisions, not even preliminary ones. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504/60 "2003-01-23T18:59:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Usram \* > \*\*This is a myth \*\* So much for Ugarte begging Rick, “Where’s the rest of me? Where’s the rest of me?” Party pooper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca-i-finally-saw-it/149504.md?page=4)