# "Casablanca" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881 "2007-05-13T00:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![manx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@manx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manx)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/81 "2007-05-15T12:30:37Z")
I saw \*Casablanca \* when I was seventeen. I’d avoided it until then - I’m not much of a movie buff and all I knew was that it was a black & white ‘classic’, i.e. boring. But a girl in my class that I was trying to impress couldn’t believe that I hadn’t seen it, so she got her copy and we skipped school to watch it at my house. And it blew me away. Every line was quotable; it moved from romance to cynicism to broad humour like nothing I’d seen before. I was an instant convert. For the past few years and open air theater would show movies during the summer. \*Casablanca \* was always on the program, and I’d round up as many of my friends as I could to go see it. Without fail they’d snicker at the turning globe at the beginning, and yet by the time the bar was singing La Marseillaise they’d be misty-eyed and cheering just like me, and at the end they’d all say ‘that was _awesome_!’ I love _Casablanca_, but I love introducing it to people even more ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/82 "2007-05-15T12:46:42Z")
Nobody wants to admit that the writers just screwed up by using De Gaulle’s name. Only with wishful thinking does “De Gaulle” sound like “Weygand”. That’s not the only error they made. Captain Renault also talks about marching into Berlin with the American army in the last war, when the Allied forces never came within 200 miles of Berlin, before during or after the war. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/83 "2007-05-15T13:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Nobody wants to admit that the writers just screwed up by using De Gaulle’s name. Only with wishful thinking does “De Gaulle” sound like “Weygand”. That’s not the only error they made. Captain Renault also talks about marching into Berlin with the American army in the last war, when the Allied forces never came within 200 miles of Berlin, before during or after the war. [/QUOTE] Oh, come on. The man is _French_, he pronounces thing differently depending upon the day of the week and exaggerates about the any military efforts not French in a war. 🙂 And to help spread, er, fight ignorance: Actually, I don’t think _anyone_ marched into Berlin before the surrender, did they? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/84 "2007-05-15T13:59:03Z")
Correct. Even during the post-war occupation, the Allied forces stayed west of the Rhine. All treaty making and signing was done in France. BTW, it’s Peter Lorre’s character Ugarte, not Capt. Renualt, who says “De Gaulle.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/85 "2007-05-15T14:24:59Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] BTW, it’s Peter Lorre’s character Ugarte, not Capt. Renualt, who says “De Gaulle.” [/QUOTE] True, but that doesn’t really improve things. Although it does sound like “de Gaulle” to me, he does kind of slur the name. Here’s another poser: why does Lorre ask Rick to hold the letters? It forces Rick to be the central character, but there’s no particular reason for it, especially if he suspects that he’s going to be caught anyway. Why not just sell them to the Resistance so they can offer it to Lazlo when he shows up? Ugarte doesn’t have any particular reason to hang around other than to provide a sinisterly amusing quip for Capt Renault: “I’m making out the report now. We haven’t quite decided whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape.” Still, some classic quotes. “I don’t mind a parasite. I object to a cut-rate one.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/86 "2007-05-15T14:38:08Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Here’s another poser: why does Lorre ask Rick to hold the letters? [/QUOTE] He thinks he will be searched soon and trusts Rick. He needs time to negotiate with a buyer. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/87 "2007-05-15T15:18:30Z")
One more question about Vichy-run Morocco: Capt. Renault (“the wind blows from Vichy”) is the prefect of police. Major Strasser orders him around-why doesn’t Strasser just take over? Another great line: (Capt. Renault): “Major Strasser’s been shot-round up the usual suspects!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/88 "2007-05-15T15:27:08Z")
Because in real life, at least, the Nazis were not in control of Morocco, and a uniformed German officer like Strasser would have been an anomaly. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/89 "2007-05-15T15:30:29Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Because in real life, at least, the Nazis were not in control of Morocco, and a uniformed German officer like Strasser would have been an anomaly. [/QUOTE] In real life, wouldn’t Strasser just have put a tail on Laszlo and shot him in an alley? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/90 "2007-05-15T15:31:22Z")
My favorite scene/line(s) is the one where Ilsa is looking at cloth in a bazaar: Arab: You will not find a treasure like this in all Morocco, Mademoiselle. Only 700 francs. Rick (approaching): You’re being cheated. Ilsa (to Arab): It doesn’t matter. Thank you. Arab (pulling out a sign that says “200 francs” from underneath stall): Ah! The lady is a friend of Rick’s? For friends of Rick, we have a small discount. Did I say seven hundred francs? You can have it for two hundred! Rick (ignoring Arab): I’m sorry I was in no condition to receive you when you called on me last night. Ilsa: It doesn’t matter. Arab (eyes widening, while pulling out a sign that says “100 francs”): Ah, for _special_ friends of Rick’s, we have a special discount. One hundred francs! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/91 "2007-05-15T15:33:25Z")
Wikipedia says, > [@](#): > > In 1940, the Nazi-controlled Vichy government issued antisemitic decrees excluding Jews from public functions and imposing the wear of yellow Magen David star. Sultan Mohamed V refused to apply these racist laws and, as sign of defiance, insisted on inviting all the rabbis of Morocco to the 1941 throne celebrations. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/92 "2007-05-15T16:20:08Z")
91 posts and no one’s mentioned one of my favourite and most useful bits of dialogue from the movie. It’s a tiny little scene, but a good one. Yvonne, a French expatriot who’s had one too many is trying to get the bartender to serve her. Please bear with me if I botch the lines a little. Bartender: Yvonne, I love you. Yvonne: Give me a drink! Rick: Cut her off! Bartender: Yvonne, I love you. Yvonne: Give me a drink! Rick: I said, “Cut her off!” Bartender: Yvonne, I love you, but he pays me. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/93 "2007-05-15T16:28:08Z")
The Master speaks as to what Humphrey Bogart received for his work on the film: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_366a.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_366a.html) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/94 "2007-05-15T16:56:26Z")
Oh yes, [All Through the Night](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034449/) where Conrad Veidt plays another Evil Nazi, willing to Kill his daschund in a suicide boat crash! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/95 "2007-05-15T16:59:23Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Here’s another poser: why does Lorre ask Rick to hold the letters? It forces Rick to be the central character, but there’s no particular reason for it, especially if he suspects that he’s going to be caught anyway. Why not just sell them to the Resistance so they can offer it to Lazlo when he shows up? Ugarte doesn’t have any particular reason to hang around [snip] Stranger [/QUOTE] Well it seems that everyone in Cassablanca (In the film of course) sees Rick as a straight shooter. He may be cynical and not stick his neck out for anyone but he is completely straight. Ugarte knows Rick has no repect or like for him and in Ugarte’s twisted logic Rick’s honesty about that makes him the only one in the city to trust. Ugarte hopes that by not having the letters on him when he is arrested he can breeze through the pinch and then pick them up later for the sale he has arranged with Lazlo. (See he was selling to the resistance he just wanted to go to the top dog to get a better price). ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/96 "2007-05-15T17:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] The story certainly presages the post-war world far better than _Casablanca_. [/QUOTE] Of course it does. It takes place after WWII. _Casablanca_ takes place before Pearl Harbor. That’s like saying _Casablanca_ explores life in North Africa better than _The Third Man_. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/97 "2007-05-15T17:12:13Z")
My favorite line (and one that I often quote) is where Rick and Renault are making a bet on if Lazlo’s going to make it out of Casablanca and Renault says, “Oh, go easy on me. I’m only a poor corrupt official.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/98 "2007-05-15T17:20:40Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] Of course it does. It takes place after WWII. _Casablanca_ takes place before Pearl Harbor. That’s like saying _Casablanca_ explores life in North Africa better than _The Third Man_. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but the underlying theme of _Casablanca_ is that everyone (and in particular, America, who Rick represents) will come together to fight the evil of European fascism and will stick together to preserve peace. _The Third Man_ explores the fact that the different factions won’t or perhaps can’t cooperate except where their interests coincide (and even then with difficulty) and that in the middle there is plenty of room for corruption which feeds the economy. _Casablanca_ seems (and I think, is) a cross between a fairy tale and pro-Allies propaganda; removed from the environment of Vichy French Morocco the story doesn’t fare too well. _The Third Man_ has, I would argue, a more universal context. And the zither theme is haunting, like a joyous requiem for civilization. Like I said, maybe it’s just my cynicism. But while _Casablanca_ is kind of a fun way to blow a couple of hours, _The Third Man_ makes me think. And the closing scene is far more memorable. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/99 "2007-05-15T19:19:11Z")
Picking “holes” in the storyline of _Casablanca_ by refusing to accept the underlying premise that forces suspension of disbelief is stupid. If you refuse to accept a world in which even the baddies play more or less by the rules, then the film is a hopeless mess of stipidity and unreality. Once you accept that the premise (which you have to admit allows even the “evil” Nazis to have some semblance of decency) is valid, the movie does just fine for plot. Yes, there are some minor difficulties, but frankly this is true of every single movie ever made. Plots always have holes. And I disagree that Bogart was just being Bogart. First of all, if you watch enough of his films, you will see that he didn’t really HAVE a particular persona he played in film; his characters are as different as Queeg and Allnut. Further, even if we focus on the typical Bogart-as-private-eye character, this isn’t how he behaves during the flashback scenes to Paris before the arrival of the Germans, when he has first met Ilsa and is in love. Just MHO. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881/100 "2007-05-15T20:13:59Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Once you accept that the premise (which you have to admit allows even the “evil” Nazis to have some semblance of decency) is valid, [/QUOTE] Or legality. For example, the Bismarck could not stay safely in a neutral port, but had to put to sea again with the waiting British ships. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/casablanca/403881.md?page=6)