# Case files? We don't need no stinking case files! (Gitmo related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097 "2009-01-26T19:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/201 "2009-01-29T18:50:21Z")
**Rand** , I know you’re having a lot of fun with the “I’m so rich” schtick, but could you take a minute to answer my question? > [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > **Rand** , can you tell me what is it about the situation that you think is a little fucked up? ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/202 "2009-01-29T18:50:34Z")
> [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](#): > > Does all that expensive scotch give your life meaning? Or do you always need more and more stuff to convince yourself that you really are special? As if his other posts didn’t already, a little nip of Black Bush reminded me his money hasn’t bought him taste. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/203 "2009-01-29T18:51:23Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I’m currently eating a burrito the likes of which you liberal hippy douche peons can only DREAM! [This one?](http://www.flickr.com/photos/7389692@N08/3160208088/) ---
**Author:** ![Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@Gam\_Zeh\_Yaavor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gam_Zeh_Yaavor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/204 "2009-01-29T18:54:44Z")
My Royal Anus is pampered by naught but the finest gilt-threaded embroideries of all Indie! Tonight I shall sup on a pretty lady, hollowed out and filled with wine! Suck on that, detainee defenders! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/205 "2009-01-29T18:59:05Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > **Rand** , I know you’re having a lot of fun with the “I’m so rich” schtick, but could you take a minute to answer my question? Nope. It’s not within either of this thread’s topics (which are 1. The WaPo article is BS and 2. I’m meeeellllllting!!) ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/206 "2009-01-29T19:01:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I have health insurance. Ok, now we _ **know** _ you are lying. **Everybody** on the SDMB _knows_ that it’s impossible to afford health insurance! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/207 "2009-01-29T19:05:01Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > [This one?](http://www.flickr.com/photos/7389692@N08/3160208088/) Well that’s obviously going to be a penis, so Im not clicking. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/208 "2009-01-29T19:09:16Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. It’s not within either of this thread’s topics (which are 1. The WaPo article is BS and 2. I’m meeeellllllting!!) And yet, you are still brave enough to post about your monthy Scotch budget in this very thread. But it’s okay - wouldn’t want to collapse that house of cards you’ve put so much effort into building. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/209 "2009-01-29T19:14:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. I’m currently eating a burrito the likes of which you liberal hippy douche peons can only DREAM! [It must be a bean, beef and cheese burrito](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=101451), the Holy Grail of burritos. Are you sure you’re not a mouse from the desert? ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/210 "2009-01-29T19:33:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Well that’s obviously going to be a penis, so Im not clicking. Actually, I think I’d rather put a dick in my mouth than what’s at the other end of that link. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/211 "2009-01-29T19:38:16Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. It’s not within either of this thread’s topics (which are 1. The WaPo article is BS and 2. I’m meeeellllllting!!) I think it’s entirely on topic for this thread. If our government is incarcerating people, what level of competent record keeping can we expect to ensure our safety and human rights? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/212 "2009-01-29T19:41:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > …5. Everyone calls Rand a troll and treats him like a Bush apologist for having the temerity to take a position that is not 100 percent pro-detainee and anti-bush… Could you point out for us a post or poster that is “100 percent pro-detainee”? If you cannot, and I’m betting you can’t, could you define the phrase in some way that might allow us to believe, even for a fleeting moment, that you have the slightest idea what you are talking about? And if a detainee is innocent (as we have some reason to suspect), wouldn’t you necessarily have to be “100 percent” favorable to that “detainee”? Is it your contention that human rights are nullified by suspicion alone, and that due process applies only to the provably innocent? Explain if you can how such innocence can be proven without due process, and the protections therein? Given the clear advantages to displaying for a doubting world that we have clear, irrefutable, and damning evidence of guilt, what, in your estimation, accounts for our reluctance to produce any? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/213 "2009-01-29T19:53:19Z")
Meh, that’s not a meltdown. Now, [THIS, this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=216275), is a meltdown. Oh, and if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go and refill my cats’ golden water dishes, which are set with [priceless red diamonds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_color). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/214 "2009-01-29T20:00:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Meh, that’s not a meltdown. Now, [THIS, this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=216275), is a meltdown. Amen, sister. That had to be the Grand Poobah of trainwreck meltdowns. It even spilled over into LiveJournal from what I remember. But I could have sworn there a big red 72 point “CUNT!” thrown in for good measure. Or was that a different train-wreck? (hmm – possibly that’s what I’m remembering from the LJ spillover) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/215 "2009-01-29T20:07:02Z")
Part of the success of the Republican party over the last 30 years has been through suckering upper-middle class tools like \*\*Rand \*\*into thinking their interests are aligned with the interests of the wealthy. Dude, you WORK for a living. I don’t care how expensive your shirts are, you’re still a fucking peasant like the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/216 "2009-01-29T20:13:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Could you point out for us a post or poster that is “100 percent pro-detainee”? If you cannot, and I’m betting you can’t, could you define the phrase in some way that might allow us to believe, even for a fleeting moment, that you have the slightest idea what you are talking about? > > And if a detainee is innocent (as we have some reason to suspect), wouldn’t you necessarily have to be “100 percent” favorable to that “detainee”? Is it your contention that human rights are nullified by suspicion alone, and that due process applies only to the provably innocent? Explain if you can how such innocence can be proven without due process, and the protections therein? > > Given the clear advantages to displaying for a doubting world that we have clear, irrefutable, and damning evidence of guilt, what, in your estimation, accounts for our reluctance to produce any? You know, I used to think you were probably a smart guy (for a liberal douche) and you chose your sardonic/ironic/whimsical posting style because you thought it was funny. I know longer labor under any such assumption. Rather, I think you post the way you do to hide the fact that you don’t know what the hell is going on most of the time. The only thing I came into this thread to argue was that people shouldn’t get all hot and bothered over two reporters’ opinions that “many” detainees do not have “comprehensive case files.”. That’s it. I could be the president of an organization fighting for detainees rights (or hell, a detainee) and still make that argument. The argument has nothing to do with my views on the detainees’ situation or human rights or due process or burritoes or anything. It really pisses me off that you and others have to cut to the ultimate issue every time, and you are still doing it (as in the post I’m quoting). I’d start a pit thread over it were I not 100 percent confident it would be an anti-me and anti-Rand flamefest in 3 posts. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/217 "2009-01-29T20:16:10Z")
Aw. You poor baby. Maybe you should go take a nap on your huge pile of money. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/218 "2009-01-29T20:21:32Z")
**Something** is trickling down from the upper class, but it’s not money. And it doesn’t smell like wisdom, either. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/219 "2009-01-29T20:23:44Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It really pisses me off that you and others have to cut to the ultimate issue every time, and you are still doing it (as in the post I’m quoting). Yes. Good god, **elucidator**. We can’t have the poor conservatives actually admitting it’s wrong to strip people of their rights. Far better to deal with the fringe issues on which they can argue minutiae and technicalities. My god, if they actually openly _agree_ with a liberal, they might even _become_ one. Shudder to think. ETA: Yes, I’m generalizing based off **Rand Rover**. It’s the same song and dance the conservatives on this board have been doing for years. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/220 "2009-01-29T20:28:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The only thing I came into this thread to argue was that people shouldn’t get all hot and bothered over two reporters’ opinions that “many” detainees do not have “comprehensive case files.” And you’ve utterly failed at demonstrating that. To recap, from the fucking OP: > [@](#): > > Several former Bush administration officials agreed that the files are incomplete and that no single government entity was charged with pulling together all the facts and the range of options for each prisoner. > [@](#): > > In one federal filing, the Justice Department said that “the record . . . is not simply a collection of papers sitting in a box at the Defense Department. It is a massive undertaking just to produce the record in this one case.” So what you’re actually alleging is twofold: (1) the reporter is outright lying about what the Bush administration officials said; AND (2) that while the cases brought to trial have lacked comprehensive case files, we should presume that the ones not brought to trial are in good shape. To make either of these claims without any supporting arguments or evidence puts you firmly in in the partisan la-la land in which you are convinced your opponents reside. You aren’t here for serious debate. All you’ve done is quibble about the definition of a case file, which is totally irrelevant since what people are pissed off about is what the sources said, not the reporters’ linguistic gloss. You’re here to play games, which is odd since you claim to make so much money per hour. Assuming you’re not lying about being a tax attorney–and really, who would?–you must value your trolling really highly, which is sort of a whole different level of perversion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097.md?page=12)