# Case files? We don't need no stinking case files! (Gitmo related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097 "2009-01-26T19:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/221 "2009-01-29T20:32:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The only thing I came into this thread to argue was that people shouldn’t get all hot and bothered over two reporters’ opinions that “many” detainees do not have “comprehensive case files.”. That’s it. Don’t you get it? That is not the reason we are all “hot and bothered”. The reason is that there is absolutly ZERO evidence that there has been ANY record keeping on the detainees. If there was anything that could be pointed to to say, “hey, these two reporters are full of shit”, this would be in GD instead of the pit. But there isn’t. Earlier, **Fish** said > [@](#): > > Here we have a situation: prisoners that were incarcerated under the orders of the Bush administration (and nobody else’s; this buck cannot be passed to Clinton or Obama) cannot be released because we allege that they’re too dangerous, but cannot be tried because we cannot prove they’re dangerous; cannot provide much useful information because they’ve been in prison too long, but cannot be allowed to communicate with anybody because they know too much. We’re Americans with a foundation based in English law, claiming to be fighting for democracy and freedom, but we’re holding these prisoners on foreign soil so we can bypass freedom and democracy and the Geneva convention and that persnickety Constitution with that “right to a trial” thing. These are as close to undisputed facts as we can get about this situation. And IT IS fucked up. But instead of joining that discussion, and enlightening us with your non-“liberal douche” smarts, you have focused on the exact part of the story that no one else gives a shit about. It’s a fight you can’t lose, and you know it. And it’s why you refuse to become a part of the real discussion. _eta: Wow, that was a pretty long simulpost!_ ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/222 "2009-01-29T20:36:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Assuming you’re not lying about being a tax attorney–and really, who would?–you must value your trolling really highly, which is sort of a whole different level of perversion. He probably bills it to a client as research. I can think of no other way a tax lawyer during tax season could be spending so much time on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/223 "2009-01-29T20:37:55Z")
Or eating burritos. Long, thick, firm burritos, filled with creamy sauce, and with a scrotum on the other end. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/224 "2009-01-29T20:43:09Z")
In a bag. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/225 "2009-01-29T20:52:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It really pisses me off that you and others have to cut to the ultimate issue every time,… I have two responses to this. 1. I would be a whole lot more inclined to cut the government some slack on the small stuff, like record keeping, if I saw signs that they were trying to get the big stuff right, like locking people up for years without trial or review. 2. If you want to talk just about record keeping and data gathering, fine. Didn’t we already go through this about seven years ago? When the backgrounds of the September 11th hijackers came to light, there were all sorts of red flags. They went to flight schools to learn to fly, but not land. Weren’t we told that the compartmentalization of the intelligence agencies kept anyone from seeing the big picture of what was about to unfold? Didn’t we create an entire fucking cabinet department so there would be experts with all the information at hand? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/226 "2009-01-29T20:57:13Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > He probably bills it to a client as research. I can think of no other way a tax lawyer during tax season could be spending so much time on the SDMB. There’s no such thing as tax season to a tax lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/227 "2009-01-29T20:58:56Z")
So in my search for that foie gras breakfast burrito, I googled “most expensive burrito.” I didn’t find much, except for a guy who got a $3300 ER bill for food poisoning after eating a burrito, and another person warning that a cheap burrito gets a lot more expensive if you park in the wrong place and get towed. Since RR has already mentioned that he has health insurance, I can only assume that he is either a) eating that horrifying foie gras burrito, or b) eating a NORMAL burrito, but with his fabulously expensive car in the impound lot. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/228 "2009-01-29T21:00:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > There’s no such thing as tax season to a tax lawyer. That’s about the only true thing I’ve seen you post in this thread. Even we public defenders, with our high-falutin’ comprehensive case files (full of info supplied directly from the prosecutors’ comprehensive case files, no less!) know this, though, so it doesn’t exactly prove that you aren’t talking out your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/229 "2009-01-29T21:09:50Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > That’s about the only true thing I’ve seen you post in this thread. Even we public defenders, with our high-falutin’ comprehensive case files (full of info supplied directly from the prosecutors’ comprehensive case files, no less!) know this, though, so it doesn’t exactly prove that you aren’t talking out your ass. Right, like you’re really a public defender. Probably a seat licker in the public defender’s bathroom or something. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/230 "2009-01-29T21:17:10Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Don’t you get it? That is not the reason we are all “hot and bothered”. The reason is that there is absolutly ZERO evidence that there has been ANY record keeping on the detainees. If there was anything that could be pointed to to say, “hey, these two reporters are full of shit”, this would be in GD instead of the pit. But there isn’t. > > Earlier, **Fish** said > These are as close to undisputed facts as we can get about this situation. And IT IS fucked up. But instead of joining that discussion, and enlightening us with your non-“liberal douche” smarts, you have focused on the exact part of the story that no one else gives a shit about. It’s a fight you can’t lose, and you know it. And it’s why you refuse to become a part of the real discussion. > > _eta: Wow, that was a pretty long simulpost!_ “Zero evidence of any record-keeping”? Are you serious? Do words mean anything to you, you George Jetson singing slapdish motherfucker? If you think the topic of this thread is a side issue that no one gives a shit about, take it up with Dio, not me. My participation in this thread creates no obligation to “get involved” in the larger issue that it is a part of. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/231 "2009-01-29T21:25:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > My participation in this thread creates no obligation to “get involved” in the larger issue that it is a part of. Congrats again, Rand Rover. You win the non-debate you created. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/232 "2009-01-29T21:44:42Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Congrats again, Rand Rover. You win the non-debate you created. Are you really an idiot or do you just play one on the SDMB? Dio started a thread with an article saying “sound the alarm, many detainees don’t have comprehensive case files!”. I responded that the article is an opinion piece, what is a CCF anyway, and the lack of a CCF doesn’t mean there’s no evidence at all. (Oh, and then I had a meltdown.) So how exactly did I start and then win a non-debate? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/233 "2009-01-29T21:48:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So how exactly did I start and then win a non-debate? The outrage expressed in the OP is part of a larger picture. You have willfully ignored that larger picture to win the debate that the OP is nothing to get upset about. Game, set, match again for **Rand**. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/234 "2009-01-29T21:55:26Z")
[Obama Can't Review Gitmo Case Files: They Don't Exist | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/25/obama-cant-review-gitmo-c_n_160691.html?page=5&show_comment_id=20098298#comment_20098298) The files if they exist have been spread throughout the government. Gotta take the time to track them down. Seems about right for an admin that has so much to hide. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/235 "2009-01-29T22:06:16Z")
But you give yourself away, **Randy Ayndy**. You _crave_ to be taken seriously, and it shows. Why else would you blubber to us about how your views are discounted simply because you are conservative? But how might we do that, if you insist on focusing on trivialities and exclude the overriding issues? Were it not for those issues, we wouldn’t be talking about the piddling details _at all_, much less calling for the attention of an intellectual dynamo such as yourself. It matters, **RR**. Young men who should be drinking beer, chasing tail, and dreaming of futures as brightly avaricious as yours, will not have the opportunity. Because they’re dead. And they are dead (at least in part) because our enemies can recruit young victims of their own so easily. And they can recruit so easily (at least in part) because we give them cause. We show them that our vaunted commitment to human rights and the rule of law is merely the gossamer veil we drape over our crimes, like a negligee on the poxed body of an aging street whore. It matters. Its important, because we give our enemies just cause to despise us. Have we demonstrated an abiding concern and unshakable commitment to justice? Or have we amply demonstrated that the only rights we care about are American rights, and them only when correctly aligned. It matters because the astonishing experiment that is America can be a light and a beacon to a groaning world. But only if we live up to our principles, only if we take the hard and dangerous road of allowing even our enemies the dignity due to their humanity. Otherwise, we are merely another band of sanctimonious bullies, asserting our will for no more reason but that we have the power to do so. No principles, no moral compass, merely the stark cynicism of force. How can we wonder that our enemies hate us, when we give them reason? I say lets strip them of this power. Stand up each and every detainee, give them the full benefits of the rule of law, and if we cannot prove…_prove_, mind you!..them guilty, let them go. Are we so timid and chickenshit we don’t dare take such a risk? Since when? Let the world see justice done, let them gasp in awe at American audacity and courage. Let them be stunned to see that we mean what we say. Then let them ask “If the Americans can do this, why can’t we?” I love my country as she is, but I love even more what she can be. In my small way, I labor to see that day, even if only on a distant horizon. I could use your help, if you’ve nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/236 "2009-01-29T22:23:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Get a room, you two. This is Rand’s party. His toilet paper costs more than your children’s clothes, you know. Please. His _dingleberrys_ are handmade at Harrods of London. That alone costs more than we’ll ever make combined. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/237 "2009-01-29T22:28:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > \<…\> > > No principles, no moral compass, merely the stark cynicism of force. > > \<…\> Last time I looked, this was at the heart of the Randiverse. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/238 "2009-01-29T22:28:27Z")
I expect that from the outset, information flow was structured to best help address the nation’s intelligence/security needs, rather than to create legal cases against the prisoners. As time went on, it would have become more and more difficult to shape the information flow so as to also address the prosecution/defence needs. Now that a new administration wants to address both intelligence/security needs and prosecution/defence needs, it is finding that it has a lot of leg work to attend to, rather than simply taking over previously established cases. This is no suprise, given that the previous administration kept the prisoners off-shore for the sole reason that it permited the administration to by-pass the nation’s well developed criminal justice process. Since the criminal justice process was being avoided, it is to be expected that for the most part cases would not be prepared to meet the criminal justice process. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/239 "2009-01-29T22:30:47Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > The outrage expressed in the OP is part of a larger picture. You have willfully ignored that larger picture to win the debate that the OP is nothing to get upset about. Game, set, match again for **Rand**. This is patently retarded. So every OP should only be discussed based on one’s biews on the larger issue? I don’t think you’ll find much support for this notion, even among your fellow liberal douches. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/240 "2009-01-29T22:41:36Z")
Luci, your “sobbing in your beer” post reads almost exactly like one someone posted in the thread I started about why SDMB posters always say a politician lied without even asserting that he knowingly said something false and even when what he more provably did is bad enough. I guess nuance is impossible for some people. Every post must be “bush bad” or “bush good” or Þhey aren’t interested. Anyone who posts about anything else is discussing a side issue and is being willfully blind to the main point. The messageboard of your dreams sounds like an awfully boring place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097.md?page=13)