# Case files? We don't need no stinking case files! (Gitmo related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097 "2009-01-26T19:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/321 "2009-01-31T00:24:12Z")
First, Rand stepped in before Dio made those comments. So attributing Rand’s position to Dio’s overstepping is, well, anachronistic. Second, there’s quite obviously a difference between “no information exists” and “we don’t know that the information exists.” And third, you’re reading of Dio is as uncharitable as possible. The context of the statements makes pretty clear that he’s arguing that because there are no comprehensive case files, we don’t actually know \*ex ante \*if there exists for each detainee a full and accurate record of why we’re holding them. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/322 "2009-01-31T00:36:09Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > And third, you’re reading of Dio is as uncharitable as possible. Well, he is a lawyer (or at least a “lawyer”), and one of the reasons he has so much money for liquor and prostitutes is, he doesn’t give to charity, so he’s got the extreme interpretation going either way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/323 "2009-01-31T02:56:48Z")
Dragging the conversation down to trivialities like truth and justice, there is the experience of military prosecutor Col. Vandeveld. I just saw him tell the story on Rachel Maddow’s show. Can’t really link to that easy, but here’s a story in the _LA Times_. > **[For lawyer, trial was tribulation](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-12-na-gitmo12-story.html)** > > Guantanamo prosecutor who quit had 'grave misgivings' about fairness ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/324 "2009-01-31T03:49:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Dragging the conversation down to trivialities like truth and justice, there is the experience of military prosecutor Col. Vandeveld. I just saw him tell the story on Rachel Maddow’s show. Can’t really link to that easy, but here’s a story in the _LA Times_. > > [For lawyer, trial was tribulation](http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/12/nation/na-gitmo12) I love fuzzy kitties. They’re sooooo cute! This post has as much to do with the topic of this thread as does yours. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/325 "2009-01-31T03:52:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I love fuzzy kitties. They’re sooooo cute! > > This post has as much to do with the topic of this thread as does yours. Pssst, No one gives a shit what made up people say ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/326 "2009-01-31T04:10:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > …This post has as much to do with the topic of this thread as does yours. Well, let’s see. Hmmmm. Thread is about evidence and Guantanamo. The link takes you to his story, about evidence and Guantanamo. Speaks with some authority, I would imagine, having some passing familiarity with the situation. You know, being a military prosecutor assigned there. Seems to be several points of relevance there. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/327 "2009-01-31T16:03:06Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > First, Rand stepped in before Dio made those comments. So attributing Rand’s position to Dio’s overstepping is, well, anachronistic. Clearly, you are unaware that when you have as much money as Rand, you develop psychic powers. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/328 "2009-01-31T17:23:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, let’s see. Hmmmm. Thread is about evidence and Guantanamo. The link takes you to his story, about evidence and Guantanamo. Speaks with some authority, I would imagine, having some passing familiarity with the situation. You know, being a military prosecutor assigned there. But you’re not a lawyer, **elucidator** , and **Rand** is. What do you know? The reporter could simply be lying. In fact, that entire story was probably made up. Bush never did anything wrong. Guantanamo Bay is really an excellent five-star luxury hotel and all the stories to the contrary have simply been crafted by the evil liberal douchebag media. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/329 "2009-01-31T18:07:33Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > But you’re not a lawyer, **elucidator** , and **Rand** is. What do you know? The reporter could simply be lying. In fact, that entire story was probably made up. Bush never did anything wrong. Guantanamo Bay is really an excellent five-star luxury hotel and all the stories to the contrary have simply been crafted by the evil liberal douchebag media. I saw the guy on Rachel Maddow. However, I heard that Rachel is gay, therefore it was probably just her in military-man clothes pretending to be a former prosecuter at Gitmo. Curse you, lying slanted media! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/330 "2009-01-31T18:28:32Z")
So there are people who actually accept Rovers position that the files may never have been written or do not exist. The military or the government did not do paperwork. They did not create files. What a load of crap.The military does paper work up the wazoo. If it is missing ,it was deliberate.The government will bury you in paper work, but in this specific incidence ,they did not do any. It would be the first time. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/331 "2009-01-31T18:52:39Z")
I’m thinking (reflecting **Muffin** ’s opine on page 5) that they thought they didn’t need to. When George and Don’s Excellent Military Adventure began, nobody but nobody gave a rat’s about the human rights of terrists, and an accusation of terrism was perfectly sufficient, facts and proof were mere gnats to be batted away. They didn’t gather evidence (by which I mean _physical_ evidence) because a) there wasn’t any and/or b) they didn’t figure to need it. Databases are all very well, but you cannot digitize an AK-47 and store it on a database, nor the damning (or exculpatory) fingerprints thereon. However marvelous and extensive this database may be, it is still nothing more than highly-disciplined electrons, a very technological repository for hearsay. Which, then, is worse? That we slammed up innocent people for years, or that we cannot convict the guilty in any fair court because our “evidence” bites it? YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/332 "2009-01-31T20:24:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. Yes. So? > > 2. It was an intentional meltdown post, so “I’m rich, bitch, fuck you!” is de rigeur. > > 3. Earlier this week I bought a shirt and tie that cost more than any suit you own (if you own any suits). What brand was the tie? I ask because I collect fancy neckties. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/333 "2009-01-31T21:40:51Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What brand was the tie? I ask because I collect fancy neckties. I don’t remember, but I don’t think it was anything too special (it was just 80 bucks or so). The shirt was custom so thats where the bulk of the expense was. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/334 "2009-02-01T03:43:44Z")
Getting “Who Farted” silkscreened on a wife-beater doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/335 "2009-02-01T03:52:51Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Here is some more exaggerating > > Oops. Sorry about that last one. I guess the fact that he’s fucking wackjob isn’t really relevant to the question about the existance of the information. Everything you quoted was fully cited, including the last one. If that one sounds horrific to and loony to to you, I agree but I’m just the messenger, don’t project the crazy onto me. All I did was report it. As to your other accusation. I never said “no information exists.” I said we don’t know WHAT information exists or even necessarily that it exists at all for every detainee, but I never said I know that no information exists. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097/336 "2009-02-01T04:08:51Z")
Likewise, I said that there is no evidence that there has been any record keeping. I’m not saying I KNOW there was no record keeping, just that no evidence of record keeping has been presented (other than that guy saying that the evidence isn’t all in the same place, but that it is in a database - or whatever he said that didn’t make sense to me). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/case-files-we-dont-need-no-stinking-case-files-gitmo-related/483097.md?page=16)