# cash for clunkers and the govt controlling your computer **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064 "2009-08-02T15:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/61 "2009-08-04T00:16:05Z")
\>Thanks for providing some actual information in General Questions and rebutting the snark from beowulff and Justin. Its still bullshit. WakeOnLan isnt on by default for most machines and even if it was and you could send the wake packet, you’re just turning on the machine, not magically opening it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/62 "2009-08-04T02:03:55Z")
> [@Yossarian](#): > > So can the government call tell what I’m watching even when my TV is off? Yes, and they can tell what you’re reading when your eyes are closed. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/63 "2009-08-04T02:23:01Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > \>Thanks for providing some actual information in General Questions and rebutting the snark from beowulff and Justin. > > Its still bullshit. WakeOnLan isnt on by default for most machines and even if it was and you could send the wake packet, you’re just turning on the machine, not magically opening it. Yes, the original rumor is BS, but the people asserting that it was not possible to power-up a machine remotely were also just flat wrong. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/64 "2009-08-04T02:28:55Z")
UNLESS THEY ACTIVATE WOL IT WONT WORK! So in 99.9% of the cases they are wrong. the idea that the government abuses WoL is ridiculous on its face. Pedant nitpicking isnt being right when youre wrong about the claim and its implementation. Show me the site sends a WoL packet. I’ll wait for your proof. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/65 "2009-08-04T03:52:37Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > UNLESS THEY ACTIVATE WOL IT WONT WORK! > > So in 99.9% of the cases they are wrong. the idea that the government abuses WoL is ridiculous on its face. Pedant nitpicking isnt being right when youre wrong about the claim and its implementation. Show me the site sends a WoL packet. I’ll wait for your proof. Of course the govt isn’t sending WOL packets. No one in this thread that is trying to explain things to you lunkheads says they are. But posters were just plain wrong when they asserted that computers can’t be powered on remotely. If someone on the side of reason makes such an incorrect assertion they just open themselves, and their cause, to people all too willing to point to their ignorance and say “aha”. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/66 "2009-08-04T04:01:32Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Yes, the original rumor is BS, but the people asserting that it was not possible to power-up a machine remotely were also just flat wrong. You REALLY need to get your terminology straight. It is certainly possible to do a wake-from-sleep by sending a special packet (all bits on, as I recall) to a machine with an Ethernet card that has that capability. However, it is NOT POSSIBLE to power up a machine that is OFF, unless you have special hardware (like a powerstrip that is remotely controllable). I’ve never seen a configuration like this. Please stop confusing this issue. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/67 "2009-08-04T07:54:25Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > You REALLY need to get your terminology straight. > It is certainly possible to do a wake-from-sleep by sending a special packet (all bits on, as I recall) to a machine with an Ethernet card that has that capability. > > However, it is NOT POSSIBLE to power up a machine that is OFF, unless you have special hardware (like a powerstrip that is remotely controllable). I’ve never seen a configuration like this. > > Please stop confusing this issue. Wake-On-Lan is not just wake-from-sleep - it will wake a PC that has been shut-down (i.e **off** in common parlance). Back in the early 90’s, PC power supplies had a physical switch in the AC line in, so that when the PC was off, it was off hard. The ATX motherboard and power supply introduced a soft power switch via the motherboard, allowing WakeOnLan functionality among other things (like hold-to-reset). What this means, though, is that some parts of the motherboard and power supply are still minimally powered on while the system is off, waiting to detect the soft switch to power up fully. The motherboard could also run a hardware clock, allowing time scheduled startup/shutdown. Other hardware inputs could also be configured to trigger power-up, like RS232. The new Intel Q45 chipset (mentioned earlier) adds additional functionality to WOL and the ethernet card, giving a range of remote control options (probably via a low power micro cpu in the chipset itself) including power on/off, reset and system monitoring. However, (as I noted in my earlier post) Wake-On-Lan packets cannot be routed, and so even with WOL on your PC enabled, no-one can wake your PC from the internet. A hacker could compromise your ADSL/Cable router (perfectly possible with many routers, particularly cheap ISP supplied/configured ones), and then use that to wake your WOL-enabled PC, if you turn it off without pulling the power cable 😉 But it would be easier to use some malware to set the scheduled wakeup via the WMI interface to get the PC to turn on in the middle of the night without remote notification. And call it _manufacturers scheduled remote updating_. Si ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/68 "2009-08-04T08:09:36Z")
And as for the EULA that claims that “all your system are belong to us” - this is not unusual. **Blizzard** reserves the right to examine your entire system when you start up _World of Warcraft_, to look for running tools that assist/hack the game. Other games do similar things, some more (or less) intrusively. And if I was developing a highly secure deployed system for a govt dept that ran on unsecured systems, I would be keen to use whatever tools I could to prevent a compromised client from attacking the server, including running a malware scanner that may look at every file on the client system before initiating a connection. Si ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/69 "2009-08-04T11:03:37Z")
This thread really does highlight the importance of defining terms before getting into a shouting match. In this case the term is **Off**. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/70 "2009-08-04T11:16:18Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > \> > > If you dont know anything about IT and EULAs, then why are you spreading rumors? Go back to Art Bell’s website or wherever this idiocy comes from. > > \> > > FAIL. I came here to clear up some ignorance on my part. I’m NOT here to spread rumors; I don’t follow Art Bell; or any other right wing conspiracy theory, and I’m not an idiot. I don’t know anything about IT and EULAs, which is why I’m here in the first place. If I can’t come to the Straight Dope to get some reliable answers on a topic I don’t know about then this message board fails. Your post is not helpful and degrades the value of the straight dope. You can start a thread in the Pit if you want to trash my intelligence or motives ---
**Author:** ![Yossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/9de0a6/32.png) [@Yossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/71 "2009-08-04T12:26:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, and they can tell what you’re reading when your eyes are closed. That’s why I’m wearing a tin-foil blindfold. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/72 "2009-08-04T14:24:38Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > You REALLY need to get your terminology straight. > It is certainly possible to do a wake-from-sleep by sending a special packet (all bits on, as I recall) to a machine with an Ethernet card that has that capability. > > However, it is NOT POSSIBLE to power up a machine that is OFF, unless you have special hardware (like a powerstrip that is remotely controllable). I’ve never seen a configuration like this. > > Please stop confusing this issue. It has been pointed out several times that there is a difference between sleep and off, the Wikipedia cite talks about this, and there was an excellent post by si\_blakely describing wake-on-lan. Sleep has a special meaning. It is a computer that has the contents of memory kept alive by retaining power to memory. Computers can be in a soft-off state; i.e., memory state is not maintained (either on the HDD or the RAM itself), power is not supplied to the CPU or HDD, and it must re-boot from scratch. In this condition, a wake-on-LAN packet can cause the machine to turn back on and re-boot from scratch. Exactly as would happen if you pushed the button on the front. I am not sure why you are being so incredibly stubborn on this point. No, this is not what the CARS program is doing, no it is not common on desktop PCs, and even if you did turn a computer back on you don’t have some magic way of looking at the content. But, saying this is impossible just gives the wackos ammunition to point out inconsistencies in your objections. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/73 "2009-08-04T19:31:54Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Some folks are convinced that the whole digital conversion for TVs was a set-up for the government to spy on us. Years ago in a fit of boredom I was reading the privacy statement for my cable TV. I can’t find anything on google today, but at the time there was a paragraph stating that it was illegal for the cable company to watch, or monitor you or record you. I t bothered me enough that I even emailed Cecil to find out if cable companies actually had that ability. I got an answer from someone on the straight dope staff that said that they didn’t have that ability at the time, but would when cable became “interactive”. I wish I could find the appropriate statute on google, but cannot. Anyhow I now moon the cable box occasionally. (just kidding!) ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/74 "2009-08-04T21:03:34Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > Years ago in a fit of boredom I was reading the privacy statement for my cable TV. I can’t find anything on google today, but at the time there was a paragraph stating that it was illegal for the cable company to watch, or monitor you or record you. I t bothered me enough that I even emailed Cecil to find out if cable companies actually had that ability. I got an answer from someone on the straight dope staff that said that they didn’t have that ability at the time, but would when cable became “interactive”. I wish I could find the appropriate statute on google, but cannot. Anyhow I now moon the cable box occasionally. (just kidding!) With Comcast’s OnDemand (and I’d guess similar systems from other providers) programming, they certainly know what you’re watching. Especially with the various movies and adult programs since they’re charging it to your bill. I also recall hearing that the most replayed moment on Tivo was the Janet Jackson incident at the Super Bowl. Tivo has to be monitoring what you watch, otherwise how would they know that? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/75 "2009-08-05T00:02:52Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If your machine is turned off, how can the Illuminati communicate with your machine? > > I used to help maintain a server test lab for a large software company headquartered in Redmond Washington, and nobody bothered to tell us that we could access machines that weren’t even powered up. > > See, in order to send a message to your computer, the computer has to be able to receive messages. Which it can’t do if it isn’t, you know, on. Yeah, but what if you only _think_ its off? Just because you told it to TURN OFF THE COMPUTER and the little bitty light isn’t glowing, how do you know its _really_ off? What about if it NEVER GOES OFF, even during a power failure? Huh? What about that? ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064/76 "2009-08-05T12:11:50Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > But logging on to a website does not give access to the files on your computer, so I think the warning is simply poorly written. It is just saying that you have no presumption of privacy on the information you are supplying to the goverment. I suspect that this is standard boilerplate that is displayed anytime you access a similar govt. service. I bet even under Reagan (genuflect) and Bush there was similar verbiage. Had Al Gore invented the World Wide Web yet during the Reagan administration? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cash-for-clunkers-and-the-govt-controlling-your-computer/505064.md?page=3)